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Animation shows the temperature change by country from year 1880 to 2019

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Re: Animation shows the temperature change by country from year 1880 to 2019

#11

Post by Tepix »

busymom0 wrote: post #10

In 28 August 1981, the mean surface temperature is 288K = 15 degree C: http://climate-dynamics.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/hanse... ---------- In 1988, it was claimed that the global avg temperature was 59 deg F = 15 degree C Multiple sources: https://www.nytimes.com/1988/03/29/science/temperature-for-w... https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1915&dat=19880705&id=... ---------- IPCC's First Assessment Report in…

Interesting observation. Changing by a whole degree celsius is quite a big change that needs a good reason.

If you wouldn't use the word "magic" in your post, I'd perceive it as neutral/curious.

Re: Animation shows the temperature change by country from year 1880 to 2019

#12

Post by jwatt »

_8j50 wrote: post #4

Is it practical to have giant nuclear powered facilities that either pump cooled air or artificially cool surface ocean water? Or just use the electricity to break down water for O2 production and use the hydrogen to power other things?

> Is it practical to have giant nuclear powered facilities that either pump cooled air or artificially cool surface ocean water?

That would be like opening your refrigerator to cool your room - more heat is emitted from the radiator on the back of the refrigerator than is removed and so the room as a whole gets hotter. (Because movement of the heat from the interior to the back cancels out, but the energy used to move it creates additional heat resulting in a nett increase.)

Re: Animation shows the temperature change by country from year 1880 to 2019

#13

Post by ElKrist »

hinkley wrote: post #9
has2k1 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or artificially cool surface ocean water Good curiosity, but they would have to put out atleast an equal amount of heat into the atmosphere! (2nd law of thermodynamics).

People are still trying to work out if we can make black bodies that are biased to radiate more heat in frequencies that the atmosphere is permeable to. We have some materials that are much more thermally conductive in one direction than the other. Pair the two, and it might just be possible to shed some heat into space at night. Entropy always wins. It’s the heat trapped in the atmosphere that’s killing us. The univ…

Interesting. Do you have resources/keywords I can use to know more about such research?

Re: Animation shows the temperature change by country from year 1880 to 2019

#14

Post by busymom0 »

Tepix wrote: post #11
busymom0 wrote: post #10

In 28 August 1981, the mean surface temperature is 288K = 15 degree C: http://climate-dynamics.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/hanse... ---------- In 1988, it was claimed that the global avg temperature was 59 deg F = 15 degree C Multiple sources: https://www.nytimes.com/1988/03/29/science/temperature-for-w... https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1915&dat=19880705&id=... ---------- IPCC's First Assessment Report in…

Interesting observation. Changing by a whole degree celsius is quite a big change that needs a good reason. If you wouldn't use the word "magic" in your post, I'd perceive it as neutral/curious.

I am curious but I have pointed out similar discrepancies quite a few times but never received a satisfactory response. Now a days, I am pretty much afraid to even point out such discrepancies in other data too. I can share another example if anyone's curious.

Re: Animation shows the temperature change by country from year 1880 to 2019

#15

Post by ekianjo »

hinkley wrote: post #9
has2k1 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or artificially cool surface ocean water Good curiosity, but they would have to put out atleast an equal amount of heat into the atmosphere! (2nd law of thermodynamics).

People are still trying to work out if we can make black bodies that are biased to radiate more heat in frequencies that the atmosphere is permeable to. We have some materials that are much more thermally conductive in one direction than the other. Pair the two, and it might just be possible to shed some heat into space at night. Entropy always wins. It’s the heat trapped in the atmosphere that’s killing us. The univ…

> heat sink

Bad analogy and you cannot rely on conduction to transfer heat in space. The only means of heat transfer is radiation.

Re: Animation shows the temperature change by country from year 1880 to 2019

#16

Post by rrmm »

busymom0 wrote: post #10

In 28 August 1981, the mean surface temperature is 288K = 15 degree C: http://climate-dynamics.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/hanse... ---------- In 1988, it was claimed that the global avg temperature was 59 deg F = 15 degree C Multiple sources: https://www.nytimes.com/1988/03/29/science/temperature-for-w... https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1915&dat=19880705&id=... ---------- IPCC's First Assessment Report in…

The research is done in terms of a temperature anomaly from a reference that is chosen. The absolute mean temperature is an estimate based on the specific technique chosen using the data as input. The delta values are more important because they are calculated with a consistent method for a given model, whereas from model to model the value may change.

from https://www.pnas.org/content/94/16/8314

""" The two main marine data sets are those of Jones et al. (ref. 9; see also ref. 11) and the U.K. Meteorological Office (UKMO) (12, 13). These two data sets have overlapping primary source material but differ in the way that they are corrected for instrumentation changes. """

https://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/2007/2007_Hansen_ha09210n.pd... (mentions the particular model in section 1, along with a discussion of the data sources).

You basically want to be looking at the temperature anomaly not the absolute temperature.

Re: Animation shows the temperature change by country from year 1880 to 2019

#17

Post by busymom0 »

rrmm wrote: post #16
busymom0 wrote: post #10

In 28 August 1981, the mean surface temperature is 288K = 15 degree C: http://climate-dynamics.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/hanse... ---------- In 1988, it was claimed that the global avg temperature was 59 deg F = 15 degree C Multiple sources: https://www.nytimes.com/1988/03/29/science/temperature-for-w... https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1915&dat=19880705&id=... ---------- IPCC's First Assessment Report in…

The research is done in terms of a temperature anomaly from a reference that is chosen. The absolute mean temperature is an estimate based on the specific technique chosen using the data as input. The delta values are more important because they are calculated with a consistent method for a given model, whereas from model to model the value may change. from https://www.pnas.org/content/94/16/8314 """ The two main mar…

That doesn't answer the sudden change from 15C claims to 14C for the 1950-1980 period.

For example, in the following data, for 2016, they say the average global temperature as 14.8C:

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201613

If the average global temp used to be claimed to be 15C but since 2000, they claim it was 14C, then somebody is making false claims about the avg temp.

Re: Animation shows the temperature change by country from year 1880 to 2019

#18

Post by rrmm »

busymom0 wrote: post #17
rrmm wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The research is done in terms of a temperature anomaly from a reference that is chosen. The absolute mean temperature is an estimate based on the specific technique chosen using the data as input. The delta values are more important because they are calculated with a consistent method for a given model, whereas from model to model the value may change. from https://www.pnas.org/content/94/16/8314 """ The two main mar…

That doesn't answer the sudden change from 15C claims to 14C for the 1950-1980 period. For example, in the following data, for 2016, they say the average global temperature as 14.8C: https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201613 If the average global temp used to be claimed to be 15C but since 2000, they claim it was 14C, then somebody is making false claims about the avg temp.

Sorry I don't see 14.8 in the URL you gave?

Re: Animation shows the temperature change by country from year 1880 to 2019

#19

Post by rrmm »

busymom0 wrote: post #17
rrmm wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The research is done in terms of a temperature anomaly from a reference that is chosen. The absolute mean temperature is an estimate based on the specific technique chosen using the data as input. The delta values are more important because they are calculated with a consistent method for a given model, whereas from model to model the value may change. from https://www.pnas.org/content/94/16/8314 """ The two main mar…

That doesn't answer the sudden change from 15C claims to 14C for the 1950-1980 period. For example, in the following data, for 2016, they say the average global temperature as 14.8C: https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201613 If the average global temp used to be claimed to be 15C but since 2000, they claim it was 14C, then somebody is making false claims about the avg temp.

The larger point I'm trying to make is that average global temperature is something that is calculated as a result of the specific method the people doing the study use. It's not a simple average of a list of numbers. It tries to account for missing and spotty data, instrument biases, location biases, etc.

So if they find a better way to do it the calculated value will change.

Re: Animation shows the temperature change by country from year 1880 to 2019

#20

Post by jshevek »

_8j50 wrote: post #4

Is it practical to have giant nuclear powered facilities that either pump cooled air or artificially cool surface ocean water? Or just use the electricity to break down water for O2 production and use the hydrogen to power other things?

This would have the net effect of warming the atmosphere, unless you developed new technology to simultaneously beam significant heat energy into space.
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