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Nokia Is Said to Be Near Software Partnership With Microsoft

businessweek.com

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Re: Nokia Is Said to Be Near Software Partnership With Microsoft

#11

Post by brown »

madmath wrote: post #7
DanI-S wrote: post #3

I love Nokia's hardware, and have great respect for Microsoft's mobile team. But I'm not sure whether two dinosaurs together can run faster than one.

I could imagine Nokia becoming just a phone hardware manufacturer (many have pointed out that they have great hardware) like LG or HTC, and integrate software from companies such as Microsoft. If Samsung, LG, HTC do it, how hard can it be?

Nokia doesn't want that though. Nokia leadership views "just a phone hardware manufacturer" as a doomed fate in a commodity business, much like PC manufacturers have been a commodity for the past 10-20 years. Granted, Dell has done alright in that space, but overall that market still represents a commoditized business.

Instead, Nokia wants to control the stack. That means having an integrated hardware + software solution. That creates real competitive advantage, which creates real profits. Apple has 25% margins. Dell has single digit margins.

Re: Nokia Is Said to Be Near Software Partnership With Microsoft

#12

Post by potatolicious »

azakai wrote: post #6

So, Nokia is said to prefer a 'partnership' with Microsoft, as opposed to being just another hardware vendor working with Google's Android. That means Nokia would have a special status with Windows Phone 7. Would the other hardware vendors Microsoft has been working with be kicked out, leaving WP7 to run only on Nokia hardware? I find it hard to think of any other 'special status' Nokia can have, if other vendors als…

> "However, it seems it would make much more sense for Nokia to just fork Android, which is also a viable platform, and a more popular one at that. Also, it is free of cost, unlike WP7."

I've seen WP7 run faster on remarkably little hardware - it's a lot like iOS in that sense. Where even Froyo would lurch and struggle, iOS and WP7 have been shown to make very snappy experiences out of relatively old hardware.

This can potentially lend a lot of hardware advantages. The current "we have N core in our phones!" race that HTC, LG, Moto, and Samsung are running in is in no small part due to the lackluster performance of Android. The only apparent solution is to throw more and more hardware at it (and to be fair, it's working, the latest generation of Android devices are finally as snappy as my pokey 500MHz iPhone).

But consumers don't care about their megahurtz or their cores. They want a snappy UI that works for them - if Nokia can create a better experience for less hardware, they pocket that difference. This can also confer spec-sheet advantages that customers do care about - e.g. battery life.

Secondly, as a "preferred partner" for MS, Nokia might have some say over where the platform goes. I think it's pretty safe to say that Google does what it wants with Android, and if Nokia wanted a feature they'd have to wait in line like everyone else. Given the poor sales of WP7 so far, I'm betting MS is willing to bend over backwards and Nokia may get to drive the platform development in a big way.

Re: Nokia Is Said to Be Near Software Partnership With Microsoft

#13

Post by nextparadigms »

potatolicious wrote: post #12
azakai wrote: post #6

So, Nokia is said to prefer a 'partnership' with Microsoft, as opposed to being just another hardware vendor working with Google's Android. That means Nokia would have a special status with Windows Phone 7. Would the other hardware vendors Microsoft has been working with be kicked out, leaving WP7 to run only on Nokia hardware? I find it hard to think of any other 'special status' Nokia can have, if other vendors als…

> "However, it seems it would make much more sense for Nokia to just fork Android, which is also a viable platform, and a more popular one at that. Also, it is free of cost, unlike WP7." I've seen WP7 run faster on remarkably little hardware - it's a lot like iOS in that sense. Where even Froyo would lurch and struggle, iOS and WP7 have been shown to make very snappy experiences out of relatively old hardware. This c…

I wouldn't go as far as saying WP7 can run better on older or lower end hardware than Android. Remember Android runs pretty well on 500 Mhz ARM11 chips, while WP7 has to run on at least 1 Ghz Cortex A8 chip. I don't think that requirement is a coincidence after seeing how slow the Xbox Avatar was moving for example.

The problem with Android has always been lack of hardware acceleration, and I agree that Google made a terrible mistake by not supporting it from the very beginning.

Re: Nokia Is Said to Be Near Software Partnership With Microsoft

#15

Post by StavrosK »

asmithmd1 wrote: post #14
DanI-S wrote: post #3

I love Nokia's hardware, and have great respect for Microsoft's mobile team. But I'm not sure whether two dinosaurs together can run faster than one.

or two drunks tied together will walk in a straight line

You know, I bet two drunks tied together would be way more stable than one. Four legs are better than two.

Re: Nokia Is Said to Be Near Software Partnership With Microsoft

#16

Post by JulianMorrison »

brown wrote: post #11
madmath wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could imagine Nokia becoming just a phone hardware manufacturer (many have pointed out that they have great hardware) like LG or HTC, and integrate software from companies such as Microsoft. If Samsung, LG, HTC do it, how hard can it be?

Nokia doesn't want that though. Nokia leadership views "just a phone hardware manufacturer" as a doomed fate in a commodity business, much like PC manufacturers have been a commodity for the past 10-20 years. Granted, Dell has done alright in that space, but overall that market still represents a commoditized business. Instead, Nokia wants to control the stack. That means having an integrated hardware + software solu…

No-one else can be Apple. It's questionable how long Apple can continue to be Apple. They got to own a stack because they started way ahead of the competition and haven't slacked or hit any technological walls. Upon the inevitable moment they lose momentum, the clones baying at their heels will eat them. This happened before, with classic Mac before the Jobs renaissance.

As for Nokia, the market has reached a point of consolidation on standards comparable to the collapse of competing computer types in the early 90s from Atari, Commodore, Acorn, Amstrad etc to PC and Mac and nothing else. So they can either sell hardware or die.

Re: Nokia Is Said to Be Near Software Partnership With Microsoft

#17

Post by SwellJoe »

jacabado wrote: post #5
DanI-S wrote: post #3

I love Nokia's hardware, and have great respect for Microsoft's mobile team. But I'm not sure whether two dinosaurs together can run faster than one.

What is the track record of Microsoft in this kind of partnerships? Genuine question.

You'd have to define "this kind of partnership". There are a number of mobile device makers building Windows phones. And there have been many co-development and branding deals over the years with Microsoft and PC makers. Many have been successful, many have failed.

This, however, brings to mind the OS/2 deal, to me. If Microsoft culture is anything like it was in the 90s (which may not be the case), I would expect Microsoft to be a loyal partner with Nokia until such time as it is advantageous for them to go their own way, leaving Nokia holding the bag on a jointly developed "standard" platform that no one else wants.

But, hey, I'm a cynical old nerd that's been involved in technology too long. The fact that Microsoft is a distant third, and losing ground daily, in the market might make a difference in how they treat their friends.

Re: Nokia Is Said to Be Near Software Partnership With Microsoft

#18

Post by SwellJoe »

abless wrote: post #2

Not exactly surprising considering Elop's background.

Yeah, everyone keeps trying to make this into a technical or business decision, when it's clearly not. Partnering with an also-ran doesn't make sense except in the context of Elop coming from Microsoft and bringing along a team of softies.

Only a Microsoft fanatic would look at the mobile landscape right now and think, "I know, I'll team my struggling company up with those guys. They really know what they're doing."

Re: Nokia Is Said to Be Near Software Partnership With Microsoft

#19

Post by ericb »

dlevine wrote: post #4

It's a bit surprising that Nokia wouldn't go for another Linux-based platform (Android), but I guess that anything is better than their current strategy. I guess that WP7 will allow them to provide an alternative to all the Android devices out there, and unlike Android, they could potentially be the premier WP7 vendor if they execute correctly.

There are still millions of windows users, and the phone is quickly becoming the computer. If you can make phones do "computer things" in away that is just like the computer these folks are used to, you might have an angle of attack, which is more than nokia has now.

Betting on the same plan as your nimbler competitors is a dominated strategy game theory-wise.

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