Live data from Hacker News

Finland's Prime Minister Suggests a Four-Day Workweek and Six-Hour Days

inc.com

11–20 of 77 posts

Re: Finland's Prime Minister Suggests a Four-Day Workweek and Six-Hour Days

#11
post #3

” Perhaps following the lead of other Scandinavian countries, where a six-hour workday is common.” Not in Sweden. 40h per week here means fulltime.

I've worked primarily with Norwegians for most of my working like, but have also worked in projects in Sweden, Denmark and Finland - I've never come across this mythical 6-hour workday?

Re: Finland's Prime Minister Suggests a Four-Day Workweek and Six-Hour Days

#12

John Maynard Keynes published an interesting paper in 1930. "Economic possibilities for our grand children"

He also said that in the long run we are all dead so I'm not sure I'd trust him to have the best interests of our 'grandchildren' at heart.

Well he’s not wrong. We’re all dead at the end.

What is your impression of mortality?

Re: Finland's Prime Minister Suggests a Four-Day Workweek and Six-Hour Days

#13
post #9

I'm possibly going to go against the grain here but I'll speak my truth...6 hours honestly feels like too little time and isn't necessarily something to celebrate. If I only worked for 6 hours and 4 days I'd lose my mind. I've tried it and I didn't like it one bit. May be that's just me but I enjoy my work so much I wish there were 25 hours.

Couldn't you work 6 hours "for the man", and then work on a project of your own choosing, for whatever reason you wanted? (a side project, the next unicorn, some spare cash, something OSS, something for charity, or just because)

It's exactly what I do, but I suspect that the spirit of this 6 hour initiative isn't necessarily in line with what you're alluding to but rather the idea that working less hours is better for all of us. Correct me if I'm wrong about this.

Re: Finland's Prime Minister Suggests a Four-Day Workweek and Six-Hour Days

#14
I don't think it should be assumed that less time at work is necessarily preferable. What will people do with all their additional spare time? Sure, they might spend their days learning art, history, philosophy. They might take up writing poetry, painting or learning the piano. Or, they might vegetate in front of the TV, take up drinking as a hobby, argue with strangers online and slowly decay into existential nihilism.

The devil will make work for idle hands.

Re: Finland's Prime Minister Suggests a Four-Day Workweek and Six-Hour Days

#15
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seriously enjoy your work so much that you don't have anything you would rather be doing? Not even a side project? You must be working on the coolest thing ever.

I work for myself as a mobile and wed dev so I have my clients who pay my bills and several apps I'm working on in parallel.

The number of hours you volunteer to put into working for yourself is, frankly, completely irrelevant to the issue of hours demanded by a boss from their employees, who surely have things in their life they'd rather be doing with their time. Using the former as a way to argue that the latter should be kept high is an uncharitable mentality.

Re: Finland's Prime Minister Suggests a Four-Day Workweek and Six-Hour Days

#16
I wonder what a plausible model for productivity by hours work is, and whether it varies by occupation.

Especially for piecemeal labor, after getting to the point where you maintain your baseline level of skill (say, 10 hours/week?), it seems like each marginal hour will have less productivity than the previous. It probably never drops to negative, unless we're talking 80 hour weeks.

It's less clear to me that the same is true of so-called knowledge workers. Or, at least, the baseline is much higher. My bet would be that an engineer who only works 10 hours/week is going to be less productive, on an hourly basis, than one who works 20 hours/week. I'm not sure what the inflection point would be, though.

I think a better model would be having a year or two of relatively long workweeks (40 hours a week) to be followed by a year or two of vacation and education, instead of 20 hours/week consistently.

Another approach would be decreasing the retirement age. I'm less a fan of this, as too many people end up depressed and lost after they leave the workforce. Plus, it's a raw deal for people who die before they retire.

Re: Finland's Prime Minister Suggests a Four-Day Workweek and Six-Hour Days

#17
post #16

I wonder what a plausible model for productivity by hours work is, and whether it varies by occupation. Especially for piecemeal labor, after getting to the point where you maintain your baseline level of skill (say, 10 hours/week?), it seems like each marginal hour will have less productivity than the previous. It probably never drops to negative, unless we're talking 80 hour weeks. It's less clear to me that the sa…

How is a lowered retirement age a raw deal for people who die before they retire?

Re: Finland's Prime Minister Suggests a Four-Day Workweek and Six-Hour Days

#18
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He also said that in the long run we are all dead so I'm not sure I'd trust him to have the best interests of our 'grandchildren' at heart.

Well he’s not wrong. We’re all dead at the end. What is your impression of mortality?

Do you honestly believe that he meant it in a literal sense? You as well as I know that he meant it would be better to emphasize on short term plans as opposed to long term plans. It is simply a question of time preference and I'm simply saying that he would therefore not be best placed to make plans for our grandchildren. He'd be inclined optimize for the present as opposed to the future especially when we're resource constrained as we often are.

Re: Finland's Prime Minister Suggests a Four-Day Workweek and Six-Hour Days

#19

I don't think it should be assumed that less time at work is necessarily preferable. What will people do with all their additional spare time? Sure, they might spend their days learning art, history, philosophy. They might take up writing poetry, painting or learning the piano. Or, they might vegetate in front of the TV, take up drinking as a hobby, argue with strangers online and slowly decay into existential nihili…

That's their choice. That's their life to do with as they wish.

One can just as well "vegetate" as an employee to a boss; indeed, we know that the nature of the current work setup is such that many come home drained from work all day, sit in front of the TV, take up drinking as a hobby, argue with strangers online (see me, now), decay into nihilism, etc, all the same.

The purpose of life isn't to work; the purpose of life is the other things, the fun and play.

Re: Finland's Prime Minister Suggests a Four-Day Workweek and Six-Hour Days

#20

Just looking over her Wikipedia article it's not clear to me she's ever been involved in managing a business.

This is exactly my point. I honestly don't know how anything would ever get done with this kind of attitude. I'm not saying that we should overwork our labor force but what we have now seems fairly optimal.
Post reply on HN