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Climate change now detectable from any single day of weather at global scale

nature.com

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Re: Climate change now detectable from any single day of weather at global scale

#11

Post by loblollyboy »

skilled wrote: post #6

Living in Eastern Europe right now. It's +6 Celsius for the last week. Earth hasn't frozen yet, so if any snow falls it melts in a few hours. In comparison, when I was growing up here in the 90s; we had solid -30 Celsius winters for several months. You had to prepare opposed to nowadays, where buying a winter jacket comes down to preference. Cold or not cold... But climate change is a hoax, right?

I “feel” the same way about the east coast of the US, but I know that is super unscientific - comparing impressions as an adult to childhood memories, but I really don’t recall 70 degree days being routine. Now I live in the upper midwest, I learned in some class that the upper Midwest of the US was one of the few places on Earth not warming on average (actually anomalously cold) but this winter is like one of the “old” east coast winters, I just stepped out in my shorts and flip-flops

Re: Climate change now detectable from any single day of weather at global scale

#12

Post by exdsq »

skilled wrote: post #8
haunter wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean I live in Eastern Europe too, Hungary and it's -7c now. No snow but everything is frozen. I don't think our local experiences are a good indicator. >we had solid -30 Celsius winters for several months I'm curious, do you have any data source about that? -30c for several months sounds really extreme

Why would you ask me for data when you can look that up for yourself? I speak from experience.

Maybe in Siberia? I can’t find anything for, say, Ukraine to suggest it averaged -30 for months

Re: Climate change now detectable from any single day of weather at global scale

#14

Post by yokaze »

supercall wrote: post #2

People's financial incentives are not aligned with the climate's necessary modifications. The two won't be aligned until climate passes over its tipping point and enters an irreversible feedback loop.

Or laws/taxes are passed, which incorporate the externalities, and subventions for detrimental efforts are cut. That is "just" a matter of political will.

Re: Climate change now detectable from any single day of weather at global scale

#15

Post by pluc »

supercall wrote: post #2

People's financial incentives are not aligned with the climate's necessary modifications. The two won't be aligned until climate passes over its tipping point and enters an irreversible feedback loop.

Good. Something smarter than humans might come along next.

Re: Climate change now detectable from any single day of weather at global scale

#16

Post by bureaucrat »

skilled wrote: post #8
haunter wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean I live in Eastern Europe too, Hungary and it's -7c now. No snow but everything is frozen. I don't think our local experiences are a good indicator. >we had solid -30 Celsius winters for several months I'm curious, do you have any data source about that? -30c for several months sounds really extreme

Why would you ask me for data when you can look that up for yourself? I speak from experience.

>I was growing up here in the 90s; we had solid -30 Celsius winters for several months.

Where? In your imagination?

https://weatherspark.com/h/y/148642/1990/Historical-Weather-...

https://weatherspark.com/h/y/148509/1990/Historical-Weather-...

https://weatherspark.com/h/y/148455/1990/Historical-Weather-...

https://weatherspark.com/h/y/148594/1990/Historical-Weather-...

Re: Climate change now detectable from any single day of weather at global scale

#17

Post by bureaucrat »

pjc50 wrote: post #5
_y5hn wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currency can be printed electronically these days. Beings can't eat currency or shelter in currency. xkcd climate timeline: https://xkcd.com/1732/ I know there's a huge difference in data resolution, but worth pondering about nonetheless.

"When the last tree has been cut down, the last fish caught, the last river poisoned, only then will we realize that one cannot eat money." -- popular quote of unclear but probably native American origin in the 70s: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/10/20/last-tree-cut/

Duh. Science will figure it out and 'the last tree' will never be cut down.

Science along with capital is un-poisoning rivers, making fishing sustainable, and greenifing forests while eco-attention freaks do nothing but protest.

Re: Climate change now detectable from any single day of weather at global scale

#18

Post by igorkraw »

kzrdude wrote: post #9
supercall wrote: post #2

People's financial incentives are not aligned with the climate's necessary modifications. The two won't be aligned until climate passes over its tipping point and enters an irreversible feedback loop.

When will incentives ever be aligned with one's own long term interests? There is reason for despair, that competition to survive the day to day - everyone needs to get through their week, month and year - will always detract from the larger concerns about long term sustainability of our civilization and prosperity.

> When will incentives ever be aligned with one's own long term interests?

Once we've installed a good global governance system (imo some form of confederation of confederation ala Switzerland) that democratically aggregates preferences and can align the incentives.

People like to act like competition is inevitable, forgetting that the main hegemon of the last 50 years has competition as a large part of it's ideology (and all the runner ups are not democratically legitimised in the sense people in Europe or the US would consider enough). It's not a law of physics, it's part of a system that can be changed.

So I'd disagree. The time for despair is when you are dead, or can no longer try to improve things. Now there's work to do

Re: Climate change now detectable from any single day of weather at global scale

#19

Post by surfsvammel »

supercall wrote: post #2

People's financial incentives are not aligned with the climate's necessary modifications. The two won't be aligned until climate passes over its tipping point and enters an irreversible feedback loop.

We have in fact already passed a couple of those tipping points, unfortunately. But we can still make a big difference by getting our act together. But, some of those are already locked in, we might not see the effect for 1000 or even 10000 years, but still.

Re: Climate change now detectable from any single day of weather at global scale

#20

Post by acqq »

pjc50 wrote: post #5
_y5hn wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currency can be printed electronically these days. Beings can't eat currency or shelter in currency. xkcd climate timeline: https://xkcd.com/1732/ I know there's a huge difference in data resolution, but worth pondering about nonetheless.

"When the last tree has been cut down, the last fish caught, the last river poisoned, only then will we realize that one cannot eat money." -- popular quote of unclear but probably native American origin in the 70s: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/10/20/last-tree-cut/

And, if anybody doubts, it's sure that we are losing forests as we speak:

"World losing area of forest the size of the UK each year, report finds

Chance of ending deforestation by 2030 seems lower than when pledge was made five years ago"

Guardian, Sep 2019:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/12/deforest...

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