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US atomic waste dump in Marshall Islands to be investigated

bbc.com

11–20 of 38 posts

Re: US atomic waste dump in Marshall Islands to be investigated

#11
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just let them deal with the fallout. These islanders were intentionally used as human guinea pigs for radiation experimentation like other pacific island peoples - including the japanese civilians in hiroshima and nagasaki. Some of these islanders were intentionally relocated to nuclear testing sites in order to poison them with radiation and see the effects. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_4.1 Search Nucle…

They did a lot of bad things, but having just read the article you linked, the evidence that exposure was intentional seems pretty weak.

Then I guess it was a "happy accident" and the US got lucky that the Marshallese got exposed to radiation and we had the chance to conduct experiments on them without their informed consent.

It would be like someone wanting to test the effects of electrocution and placing a live wire on the street. Someone "accidentally" steps on it and you can conduct your experiments on the victim. But it wasn't intentional since you didn't tell the victim to go step on the live wire.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "intentional". Did they douse Marshallese directly? Did they blow up the nukes hoping some of the radiation landed on some unsuspecting Marshallese so that they can see the effects and conduct experiments? To me both are intentional, though some could argue only the former is intentional.

Re: US atomic waste dump in Marshall Islands to be investigated

#14

ABC Australia visited this island in 2017, and created a photo essay with some very clear images of its current state and its precarious location. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-27/the-dome-runit-island...

>“I’m persuaded that the radiation outside the dome is as bad as the radiation inside the dome,” says Professor Gerrard.

>“And therefore, it is a tragic irony that the US Government may be right, that if this material were to be released that the already bad state of the environment around there wouldn’t get that much worse.”

Okay, so this begs the question: how bad is it already? I don't see anyone wearing radiation suits, walking on the dome. What radiation levels are apparent there now?

Re: US atomic waste dump in Marshall Islands to be investigated

#15

What I didn't get from any of the articles is how long the radiation is expected to be a problem. We are 60 years and its still very radioactive. How many more years before its not?

A quote from the article in my earlier comment;

    Some of the debris buried beneath the dome includes
    plutonium-239, a fissile isotope used in nuclear
    warheads which is one of the most toxic substances
    on earth. It has a radioactive half-life of 24,100
    years.

Re: US atomic waste dump in Marshall Islands to be investigated

#16

What I didn't get from any of the articles is how long the radiation is expected to be a problem. We are 60 years and its still very radioactive. How many more years before its not?

Many generations beyond ours. Someone else posted this article which has more information:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-27/the-dome-runit-island...

"Some of the debris buried beneath the dome includes plutonium-239, a fissile isotope used in nuclear warheads which is one of the most toxic substances on earth.

It has a radioactive half-life of 24,100 years."

Re: US atomic waste dump in Marshall Islands to be investigated

#17

What I didn't get from any of the articles is how long the radiation is expected to be a problem. We are 60 years and its still very radioactive. How many more years before its not?

Part of the problem in determining that is that there is a history of reports saying that it wasn't a problem anymore.

> The last nuclear test in the Marshall Islands was conducted over fifty years ago, and through the passage of time and cleanup efforts by DOE, radiation doses in the RMI have been steadily declining. Today, the greatest source of radiation being absorbed by all persons living in the world, including the RMI, is from natural sources. - U.S. National Cancer Institute, 2010

There have been some reports in the past that disagreed with the narrative that the radiation was quickly disappearing, but they have been traditionally shot down quickly:

> ...determined that no further corroboration of the measurements and assessments of the radiological conditions at Bikini Atoll is necessary. The data that have been collected are of sufficient quality to allow an appropriate evaluation to be performed. - International Atomic Energy Agency, 1997

However, a modern study by Columbia University [0], published this year, found not just flaws in the way previous studies were done (they avoided sediment analysis), but a disturbingly high amount of radiation in places that were previously deemed to be "safe". Well above the legal limits put in place by agreements between the US and the Marshall Islands.

[0] https://news.columbia.edu/news/marshall-islands-nuclear-radi...

Re: US atomic waste dump in Marshall Islands to be investigated

#18
post #3
post #2

I was literally just watching this video on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=autMHvj3exA

Wow, just started watching it. I had no idea the Marshall Islands were settled thousands of years ago. Horrifying that they just detonated atomic bombs there and let people deal with the fallout...

If you think that's bad, check out the flag of Bikini Atoll (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Bikini_Atoll).

It's literally a big middle finger to the American government. It's America's flag but with some black stars hanging out amongst the stripes:

"The three black stars in the upper right represent the three islands that were disfigured in March 1954 during the 15-megaton Bravo test by the United States. The two black stars in the lower right corner represent where the Bikinians live now, Kili Island, 425 miles to the south of Bikini Atoll, and Ejit Island of Majuro Atoll. These two stars are symbolically far away from Bikini's stars on the flag as the islands are in real life (both in distance and quality of life)."

And in large black letters, the text "Everything is in the hands of God."

Let's just say they didn't appreciate their home being irradiated.

Re: US atomic waste dump in Marshall Islands to be investigated

#19

What I didn't get from any of the articles is how long the radiation is expected to be a problem. We are 60 years and its still very radioactive. How many more years before its not?

Many generations beyond ours. Someone else posted this article which has more information: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-27/the-dome-runit-island... "Some of the debris buried beneath the dome includes plutonium-239, a fissile isotope used in nuclear warheads which is one of the most toxic substances on earth. It has a radioactive half-life of 24,100 years."

Generally speaking, the longer the half-life, the less dangerous (in terms of radioactivity) something is. Also, pl239 primarily emits alpha particles, which are stopped by clothing and don't penetrate skin. Maybe a real physicist can chime in, but I don't think there's much risk of standing around subcritical quantities of the stuff.

The chemical toxicity is a different matter though.

Re: US atomic waste dump in Marshall Islands to be investigated

#20

What I didn't get from any of the articles is how long the radiation is expected to be a problem. We are 60 years and its still very radioactive. How many more years before its not?

Many generations beyond ours. Someone else posted this article which has more information: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-27/the-dome-runit-island... "Some of the debris buried beneath the dome includes plutonium-239, a fissile isotope used in nuclear warheads which is one of the most toxic substances on earth. It has a radioactive half-life of 24,100 years."

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