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Zwitterion: a web dev server that lets you import anything

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Re: Zwitterion: a web dev server that lets you import anything

#11
post #7
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This project is very clearly under active dev. The box Github puts on the repo front page saying the last release was a year ago is misleading.

Thanks for pointing that out! I wonder why that is :S

It just looks at tags, I think.

Re: Zwitterion: a web dev server that lets you import anything

#12
Can anyone point me to a workflow where the cognitive load is similar to how it was in the good old days?

i.e. some thing that does everything for me apart from the bit where I write application and presentation code? That mostly just works and doesn't require me to understand the whole stack.

Because when I switch to other languages/environments I can most remain blissfully unaware of the plumbing that keeps the thing running. I learned all I needed to learn about pip and virtualenv in under an hour. My C# editor just lets me edit code and hit play.

Is there any chance of getting to this state of nirvana for web development?

Re: Zwitterion: a web dev server that lets you import anything

#13
post #12

Can anyone point me to a workflow where the cognitive load is similar to how it was in the good old days? i.e. some thing that does everything for me apart from the bit where I write application and presentation code? That mostly just works and doesn't require me to understand the whole stack. Because when I switch to other languages/environments I can most remain blissfully unaware of the plumbing that keeps the thi…

Vanilla JS?

For most purposes I find that all these frameworks are simply unnecessary. As a bonus, all the debugging tools in Chrome work much better when there's no obfuscation or packing, and "recompiling" is just Ctrl-R.

Code size and load speed is also massively better than it would otherwise be. Pages load instantly. It's nirvana, I tell you.

Re: Zwitterion: a web dev server that lets you import anything

#14
post #9

I can’t wait for WASM to kill off JS for mainstream web front end app dev. It can’t come soon enough. edit: Look at Blazor and Yew for example, these types of frameworks can and will replace the bulk of what we use JS for today.

I'm not sure where this idea has come from, but WASM is designed to run alongside Javascript. It isn't replacing it.

Re: Zwitterion: a web dev server that lets you import anything

#16
post #9

I can’t wait for WASM to kill off JS for mainstream web front end app dev. It can’t come soon enough. edit: Look at Blazor and Yew for example, these types of frameworks can and will replace the bulk of what we use JS for today.

Is it even on the roadmap? WASM does not have access to DOM at all.

Re: Zwitterion: a web dev server that lets you import anything

#18
post #16
post #9

I can’t wait for WASM to kill off JS for mainstream web front end app dev. It can’t come soon enough. edit: Look at Blazor and Yew for example, these types of frameworks can and will replace the bulk of what we use JS for today.

Is it even on the roadmap? WASM does not have access to DOM at all.

I think it is.

Re: Zwitterion: a web dev server that lets you import anything

#19
post #9

I can’t wait for WASM to kill off JS for mainstream web front end app dev. It can’t come soon enough. edit: Look at Blazor and Yew for example, these types of frameworks can and will replace the bulk of what we use JS for today.

Have you actually used WASM? WASM is provided through JS APIs and WASM do not have DOM/HTML5 APIs so that they must be imported from JS wrapper functions. Therefore you will never be able to ditch when you are using WASM.

Currently WASM is a way worse in terms of shipping on the web. On top of wrapper JS scripts, .wasm files are treated as statice files like image files. You have extra burden with the path of every .wasm files.

Re: Zwitterion: a web dev server that lets you import anything

#20
post #12

Can anyone point me to a workflow where the cognitive load is similar to how it was in the good old days? i.e. some thing that does everything for me apart from the bit where I write application and presentation code? That mostly just works and doesn't require me to understand the whole stack. Because when I switch to other languages/environments I can most remain blissfully unaware of the plumbing that keeps the thi…

Vanilla JS? For most purposes I find that all these frameworks are simply unnecessary . As a bonus, all the debugging tools in Chrome work much better when there's no obfuscation or packing, and "recompiling" is just Ctrl-R. Code size and load speed is also massively better than it would otherwise be. Pages load instantly. It's nirvana, I tell you.

The funny thing is, all of these frameworks are designed for teams building professional sites at scale. They shouldn't be the standard for all javascript development. Not every javascript application needs NPM, a frontend framework and recompilation.
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