the simple solution is for cell phones to have a whitelist of cell towers that they connect to with GPS locations of those towers, it could even compare against known databases of towers [0]... Until some software like that gets implemented, this will keep happening.
The StingRay Is Why the 4th Amendment Was Written (2017)
11–20 of 155 posts
Re: The StingRay Is Why the 4th Amendment Was Written (2017)
#12Why does law enforcement bother? Can't they just get the info from the telcos?
First, IANAL.
This gets into some interesting legal law. If you are a normal private citizen, wiretapping without the the caller's permission is always a crime.
However, The Government can apparently wiretap if:
1. There is an executive order allowing it from the president directly. This may or may not be a national secret. This may or may not be a 4th amendment violation. But if it's a secret, how would you know whether or not it's a 4th amendment violation?
2. There is congressional authorization (by law) in place that allows the government to perform warrantless wiretaps.
3. There is an existing wiretap warrant in effect that allows the recording of an individual or organization's telephones. This is how the FBI, DEA, etc, get their wiretaps typically.
4. A court has held the wiretapping on each of the three instances above was legal.
Edited to add:
Before 9/11 the government typically respected the 4th Amendment in day to day operations ("Look before you leap"). After 9/11 the respecting the 4th amendment was seen as "pre-9/11 thinking" and forced a shift to early interception ("Easier to ask forgiveness than permission").
Re: The StingRay Is Why the 4th Amendment Was Written (2017)
#13Do y'all remember the (likely fake, but widely reported) news about Israeli stingrays in DC a few months back, in September of this year? Whatever happened to that story? It was memory holed very quickly, which makes me suspicious that those weren't actually Israeli stingrays.
It wasn't memory-holed: https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/12/israel-white-house...
Re: The StingRay Is Why the 4th Amendment Was Written (2017)
#14Do y'all remember the (likely fake, but widely reported) news about Israeli stingrays in DC a few months back, in September of this year? Whatever happened to that story? It was memory holed very quickly, which makes me suspicious that those weren't actually Israeli stingrays.
It wasn't memory-holed: https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/12/israel-white-house...
That article is a few months old.
Re: The StingRay Is Why the 4th Amendment Was Written (2017)
#15Seems like a strong case for encryption. Why is it even possible for these devices to read your info?
Encryption does not fix this completely even if you assume all texts and voice calls are encrypted. The metadata is equally important: - your location in time and space - the numbers you contacted - the duration of contact
Metadata is useful but it's a stretch to call it equally important as actual call content.
If you were spying on someone, what would you rather know: all the above metadata you listed, or a full recording of all their calls?
Re: The StingRay Is Why the 4th Amendment Was Written (2017)
#16Seems like a strong case for encryption. Why is it even possible for these devices to read your info?
It’s actually more a case for authentication. Why don’t our phones authenticate cell towers when connecting to them? Why are providers so lax at enforcing that?
Because then stingrays wouldn't work. Cellular carriers are much more beholden to the government than to the very small subset of users who knows what "authenticate with the cell tower" even means.
Re: The StingRay Is Why the 4th Amendment Was Written (2017)
#17Why does law enforcement bother? Can't they just get the info from the telcos?
That requires a warrant. Surprised the FCC allows them to tamper with peoples phones tbh. Its all sketchy as heck and flawed if cases are dismissed when they question how the tech works.
They're probably using it for parallel construction rather than gathering actual evidence for a court case. In other words, it will help them understand how/where to look for evidence that will be admissible in court.
Re: The StingRay Is Why the 4th Amendment Was Written (2017)
#18Why does law enforcement bother? Can't they just get the info from the telcos?
Telcos don't do real time analysis of which IMEI/IMSI are currently connected to a Base Transciever Station. Historical pattern of life data is useful to make a case of where someone has been (or at least their phone), but if you're trying to arrest someone you want to know where the a suspect handset is with almost no latency.
I understand the case being made, but these kind of systems work by identifying broadcast messages from handsets by providing a stronger Cell Reselect Offset path and a handful of other parameters that make the phone register with the "tower."
It's the same conceptually as if you were broadcasting a low power AM radio signal and the police tuned to your station. Your broadcast signal isn't private. Maybe it should be, but I'm not sure how that would work with GSM/CDMA systems as designed.
Re: The StingRay Is Why the 4th Amendment Was Written (2017)
#19Good article. Needs a (2017) though in the title
Re: The StingRay Is Why the 4th Amendment Was Written (2017)
#20Why does law enforcement bother? Can't they just get the info from the telcos?
First, IANAL. This gets into some interesting legal law. If you are a normal private citizen, wiretapping without the the caller's permission is always a crime. However, The Government can apparently wiretap if: 1. There is an executive order allowing it from the president directly. This may or may not be a national secret. This may or may not be a 4th amendment violation. But if it's a secret, how would you know whe…
But this sub-topic is not about wiretaps. It is about meta-data collection.