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US manufacturing still tops China’s by nearly 46 percent

boston.com

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Re: US manufacturing still tops China’s by nearly 46 percent

#11

Post by nerfhammer »

jseliger wrote: post #5

A lot of people don't understand this. I'm an English grad student, and one of my more, uh, politically-minded professors said in a seminar that the U.S. doesn't manufacture anything anymore. I sent him this e-mail: When I mentioned the bit about the U.S. continuing to manufacture a lot of stuff, I wasn't just trying to be a pain, as it's actually true; see Dept. of Labor Data on the subject here: http://research.stl…

I think it's the case the manufacturing output has increased while manufacturing employment has actually decreased

Re: US manufacturing still tops China’s by nearly 46 percent

#12

Post by hartror »

3pt14159 wrote: post #6

While it is true that North America still manufactures great quantities of luxury and high tech stuff, that isn't what is pissing off the populists. They couldn't care less if our manufacturing doubled in terms of dollars of output. What they really want is a return to the highly paid, unionized, tradesperson. To them robots making Chevy trucks matters just as much to their lives as nerds writing software. As product…

It depends on the economy, Australian tradespeople make the same if not more than good coders right now. We're growing so fast the demand for those skills is high and shows no signs of dropping off.

Re: US manufacturing still tops China’s by nearly 46 percent

#13

Post by nostrademons »

joe_the_user wrote: post #9
nostrademons wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Constant dollars" = inflation-adjusted.

However that raises the larger question of whether these inflation-adjustments are accurate. See: http://www.shadowstats.com/article/primers_intro

You can say that about any statistic. The purpose of statistics is to abstract away a large amount of raw data into a summary that people can understand at a glance. Of course it's going to throw away information - some of which might be important - in the process.

But those errors are as likely to be on the upside as on the downside. I never would've guessed as a kid that I'd be able to take a phone with me anywhere, with 4G of storage, and a built-in GPS, and the collected information of humanity at my command, for a day's worth of wages for the phone and an hour per month for the service. The cost of a college education has skyrocketed far more quickly than inflation, but it's also never been easier to learn things yourself through the Internet and then demonstrate to potential employers that you've learned them. Health care is far more expensive in constant dollars than it was a generation ago, but that's largely because for many of the most expensive treatments today, the alternative back then was "Die".

Re: US manufacturing still tops China’s by nearly 46 percent

#14

Post by joelmichael »

I am skeptical of this article because I just looked up this data a month or so ago -- opened the UN's Excel document and everything -- and found that China had recently surpassed the US in manufacturing output.

Unfortunately I am limited to the iPhone right now, so can't re-investigate the data myself until later. I have no interest in diminishing the American economy nor in over-valuing the manufacturing sector, but facts are facts and I'm legitimately confused now.

Re: US manufacturing still tops China’s by nearly 46 percent

#15

Post by rdouble »

3pt14159 wrote: post #6

While it is true that North America still manufactures great quantities of luxury and high tech stuff, that isn't what is pissing off the populists. They couldn't care less if our manufacturing doubled in terms of dollars of output. What they really want is a return to the highly paid, unionized, tradesperson. To them robots making Chevy trucks matters just as much to their lives as nerds writing software. As product…

Tradespeople do fine in areas where the economy is good. They are still highly paid and unionized. My friend welds staircases in the Bay Area and gets paid more than most programmers. Is there really a case where an electrician or pipe fitter today makes a lower wage than they did in 1970? If anyone's salaries in the USA have remained stagnant or dropped, it's the average engineer.

Re: US manufacturing still tops China’s by nearly 46 percent

#17

Post by MarkSimpson »

hartror wrote: post #12
3pt14159 wrote: post #6

While it is true that North America still manufactures great quantities of luxury and high tech stuff, that isn't what is pissing off the populists. They couldn't care less if our manufacturing doubled in terms of dollars of output. What they really want is a return to the highly paid, unionized, tradesperson. To them robots making Chevy trucks matters just as much to their lives as nerds writing software. As product…

It depends on the economy, Australian tradespeople make the same if not more than good coders right now. We're growing so fast the demand for those skills is high and shows no signs of dropping off.

Yeah. My brother just finished his apprenticeship in cabinet making and is already on more than me, a programmer. Unions don't have anything to do with it, either - I don't think he's even in one - it's just that the demand for tradesmen is so high over here. Hence the rise in cashed up bogans.

Re: US manufacturing still tops China’s by nearly 46 percent

#18

Post by sunsu »

marshray wrote: post #7

Gee I remember when it seemed the US's manufacturing output was orders of magnitude beyond China (and Japan seemed like it was where China is today). Good for China for bootstrapping their economy so effectively, but no one would claim that the US trade deficit was irrelevant to the process either. Even if you believe that China's output is now approaching parity with the US (46 percent is nearly equal on the long te…

Let's hope the US changes it's ways before the Chinese "start buying some of our stuff". When that happens it will mean China has finally developed its own consumer class. At that point, China wont be so dependent on US consumers to buy their goods and there wont be much incentive to hold on to our continuously growing debt.

Re: US manufacturing still tops China’s by nearly 46 percent

#19

Post by shrughes »

sunsu wrote: post #18
marshray wrote: post #7

Gee I remember when it seemed the US's manufacturing output was orders of magnitude beyond China (and Japan seemed like it was where China is today). Good for China for bootstrapping their economy so effectively, but no one would claim that the US trade deficit was irrelevant to the process either. Even if you believe that China's output is now approaching parity with the US (46 percent is nearly equal on the long te…

Let's hope the US changes it's ways before the Chinese "start buying some of our stuff". When that happens it will mean China has finally developed its own consumer class. At that point, China wont be so dependent on US consumers to buy their goods and there wont be much incentive to hold on to our continuously growing debt.

What are they going to do, sell it? Gosh, this will push the interest rates slightly higher! That would be so scary.

Re: US manufacturing still tops China’s by nearly 46 percent

#20

Post by rdouble »

marshray wrote: post #7

Gee I remember when it seemed the US's manufacturing output was orders of magnitude beyond China (and Japan seemed like it was where China is today). Good for China for bootstrapping their economy so effectively, but no one would claim that the US trade deficit was irrelevant to the process either. Even if you believe that China's output is now approaching parity with the US (46 percent is nearly equal on the long te…

Even if you believe that China's output is now approaching parity with the US ... is it not reasonable to ask at what point they're going to start buying some of our stuff in return?

They have bought 20% of the US Debt...

Edit: 20% of the US debt owned by foreign countries

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