Live data from Hacker News

I don’t use Semantic Web technologies anymore, though they still influence me

lespetitescases.net

11–20 of 70 posts

Re: I don’t use Semantic Web technologies anymore, though they still influence me

#12
I could write a book on what's wrong with the semantic web. One of the worst isn't even technical, it's the community. There are some great people in the community but there are also a large number of extremely toxic people that drive people away. If the technology ever takes off it's going to be because some outside community cherry-picks the good parts and tells those people to f-off. That's already starting to happen and you'll hear no end of bitching from people in the semantic web community about how they're reinventing what they've already done years ago. Guess what? You're right. You're so toxic that it's worth redoing everything if it means they don't have to deal with the toxic attitudes.

Re: I don’t use Semantic Web technologies anymore, though they still influence me

#13
I really want to like semantic web technologies, but every time I try to get into them I'm stymied: * A zillion standards that all reference each other * Two zillion incomplete and incompatible implementations of those specifications * No sense of direction within it all (what's the easy path?) * Multiple rebrandings of the same ideas (Semantic Web, Linked Data, Solid...)

Re: I don’t use Semantic Web technologies anymore, though they still influence me

#14

I have some low-level hate for the Semantic Web. I run a small personal blog that I maintain using a relatively simple static site generator that I created that turns markdown files into clean(ish) html. A couple of months ago I got interested in adding semantic information to my posts so I modified the generator to add some of the common semantic tags. It was an annoying job, since the semantic information pollutes…

I can't imagine what semantic tags would pollute a blog's markup as most of the semantic tags were designed to structure simple text content like a blog post. Do you have any examples? > Is it for search engines? Yes. And Accessibility.

I think you might be confusing semantic HTML with the semantic web. (Which is understandable given the mention of semantic tags.)

Using semantic HTML means using rather than yet another . What GP is referring to, however, is adding extra information to your HTML detailing what kind of data is in your tags, e.g.:

    
      Christopher Froome was sponsored by
      
        Sky in the Tour de France.
    

Here, the vocab, typeof and property attributes are used to add semantic information to the HTML. It might also give you an idea of why one might consider that a chore, especially if it doesn't appear to provide any benefit, like making your site accessible to users of screen readers.

Re: I don’t use Semantic Web technologies anymore, though they still influence me

#15
I am still a fan of Googles OpenRefine tool. It's reconciliation feature that helps disambiguate Named Entities etc based on wikidata is really powerful - https://github.com/OpenRefine/OpenRefine/wiki/Reconciliation

You can hook in your own reconciliation end point which we do at work to expand internal knowledge graphs.

Re: I don’t use Semantic Web technologies anymore, though they still influence me

#16
With the recent widespread interest in Category theory I still think it's a damn shame that RDF wasn't designed to treat relationships as stand-alone entities. Perhaps property graphs work better in that regard, although it's a bit weird how properties aren't themselves relationships, but perhaps that's a necessary concession to keep things efficient.

Re: I don’t use Semantic Web technologies anymore, though they still influence me

#17
At an old job, I knew some very idealistic folks who kept pushing semantic web business. "Let's do that everywhere!" As an exercise, I would have them open a browser, visit various sites, and then look at the source. "Go on, check to see if it validates," I would say with an anticipatory grin. Whether hand-crafted HTML or generated by any number of frameworks, many sites can barely manage to close their tags, asking for semantic references is a "just won't happen in practice" thing.

I have also seen a great deal of consultant money, programmer time, sys-admin sweat, and the like focused on these toweringly-designed, completely-unused triple stores, layer upon layer of hot technologies (ever-moving, construction on the tower never ceased) fused together to create a resource-intense monstrosity that, at the end of the day, barely got used. But hey, let's look at that jazz semantic web example one more time.

The most painful part is that I understand the urge to build a gleaming repository for information, where the cool URIs never change; SPARQLing pinnacles, ready to broadcast the Library of Alexandria, glimmer; and the serene manifold of abstract information lies RESTful ... but I have come to understand that the web of today is an endlessly bulldozed mudscape where Someone Very Important has to have that URL top-level yesterday (never mind that they will forget about it tomorrow), of shoddy materials and wildly varying workmanship, and where nobody is listening to your eager endpoints because the commercials are just too loud. I too once labored for information architecture, to have the correct thing in the obvious place, with accurate links and current knowledge, to provide visitors with the knowledge they desired ... but PR preempted all of it to push yet more nice photographs in yet another place: the Web as a technology for distributing images that would once live on glossy pamphlets.

The vision is lovely, but we who have always lived in the castle have walked alone.

Re: I don’t use Semantic Web technologies anymore, though they still influence me

#18
These a fair criticisms of the semantic web. One thing the author misses (does not touch on at all) is domain specific RDF resources for biology, medicine, etc.

schema.org and WikiData are great resources and for large companies, using these as a foundation for their own internal Knowledge Graphs can make sense. This expense is (maybe?) too large for small and medium size companies, they would not get enough benefit for the cost.

I worked with Google’s Knowledge Graph as a contractor, and I am still a believer in the technology but I also respect other people’s well founded scepticism.

Re: I don’t use Semantic Web technologies anymore, though they still influence me

#19
post #13

I really want to like semantic web technologies, but every time I try to get into them I'm stymied: * A zillion standards that all reference each other * Two zillion incomplete and incompatible implementations of those specifications * No sense of direction within it all (what's the easy path?) * Multiple rebrandings of the same ideas (Semantic Web, Linked Data, Solid...)

"Solid" is just SOcial LInked Data anyway. I like LD as it seems clearer in intent than the "semantic web" label.

Re: I don’t use Semantic Web technologies anymore, though they still influence me

#20

At an old job, I knew some very idealistic folks who kept pushing semantic web business. "Let's do that everywhere!" As an exercise, I would have them open a browser, visit various sites, and then look at the source. "Go on, check to see if it validates," I would say with an anticipatory grin. Whether hand-crafted HTML or generated by any number of frameworks, many sites can barely manage to close their tags, asking…

I would argue the problem is not the broken tags, but the business disadvantage to exposing semantic data.

Remember when microformats were all the rage, and you could get hReview or hRecipe or XFN data everywhere?

Then every host in turn realized that actually, it's _better_ if people can't scrape your site, and it's even better if they can't even see it and it's behind a login wall.

Post reply on HN