Live data from Hacker News

Object-recognition dataset stumped the world’s best computer vision models

news.mit.edu

11–20 of 43 posts

Re: Object-recognition dataset stumped the world’s best computer vision models

#11

It seems like, to be really good the AI needs to construct an internal 3D model of objects so it won't matter which way it's rotated. It seems to be how the human works. I can rotate an object in my mind and picture it from any angle.

For contrast, horse brains seem to not do this. They'll often see the same object from a different angle as a new stimulus.

Re: Object-recognition dataset stumped the world’s best computer vision models

#12

It seems like, to be really good the AI needs to construct an internal 3D model of objects so it won't matter which way it's rotated. It seems to be how the human works. I can rotate an object in my mind and picture it from any angle.

You can, but I don't think that's what happens when looking at stuff. When I look at the hammer, I don't rotate a hammer to see what orientation matches what I'm seeing, I see the handle and... metal bit (don't know the term, sorry), realize those look like they belong to a hammer and go "oh yeah, it's an upside down hammer".

It took me a while to recognize that wooden chair. At first I tought it was a wooden hammer on top of some squared background, but then I realized it was a chair seen from above.

For me, I actually imagine these objects moving/rotating to make sense of them when seen from unusual angles. That hammer you described, I look at it and imagine myself flexing it.

Re: Object-recognition dataset stumped the world’s best computer vision models

#14
post #13

I bet if you gave a human a short amount of time to identify these images, they'd have some mistakes too. Particularly the middle top one on the article

... it's a chair. Wow that took a minute. Some of these are devilishly tricky; clearly they're designed to hit all the difficult edge cases within the domain. What a fun dataset!

Re: Object-recognition dataset stumped the world’s best computer vision models

#15
post #13

I bet if you gave a human a short amount of time to identify these images, they'd have some mistakes too. Particularly the middle top one on the article

But human can take more time and get it correct. Computers cannot simply take more time and be more accurate (I guess AlphaZero can, but that is a different problem entirely).

Re: Object-recognition dataset stumped the world’s best computer vision models

#16
post #13

I bet if you gave a human a short amount of time to identify these images, they'd have some mistakes too. Particularly the middle top one on the article

... it's a chair. Wow that took a minute. Some of these are devilishly tricky; clearly they're designed to hit all the difficult edge cases within the domain. What a fun dataset!

Spoiler alert. Thanks for ruining the article.

Re: Object-recognition dataset stumped the world’s best computer vision models

#18
post #15
post #13

I bet if you gave a human a short amount of time to identify these images, they'd have some mistakes too. Particularly the middle top one on the article

But human can take more time and get it correct. Computers cannot simply take more time and be more accurate (I guess AlphaZero can, but that is a different problem entirely).

I agree; it seems possible that the tools currently used for image recognition are analogous to how humans quickly recognize objects, so we might not expect these tools to ever do a good job on images that humans also struggle with.

It would be nice at least if the computer tools could detect that they are confused, and I know there is some research in that direction.

Re: Object-recognition dataset stumped the world’s best computer vision models

#19
I wonder if the exact some models that failed this test would succeed if their training data included images of weird angles/unusual contexts?

My guess is every "hammer" image in the training data set was "conventional" -- a convenient angle and orientation. If half the images of "hammers" were instead "unconventional", would the model adapt to realize "my existing model of a hammer is incomplete; there must be a way to consolidate these two different images"?

Or does this require an internal 3d modeling, and better inputs wouldn't help; instead the model itself would need to be more advanced?

Re: Object-recognition dataset stumped the world’s best computer vision models

#20

Being able to measure our successes and failures is the first step towards better algorithms :) This is always exciting. I don't think anyone thought that vanilla CNN architectures were all that would ever be needed. This paper which received an honorable mention this year from NeurIPS conference first attempts to convert the image to a 3d scene before detecting objects. https://arxiv.org/pdf/1906.01618.pdf

The thing about AI/CV and other interpretation simulators is that there is always a quantization of nature in the end result. This is why the Uncanny Valley exists, "Uncanny Valley" being a term that refers to the difference between nature and the model itself, and I'm pretty sure it can't be engineered out of the technology. That is, the simulator can not picture an object from any angle, only an angle greater than its mathematical-precision limits. Analog vs. digital doesn't always have to be about audio. ;)

So, "construct an internal 3D model of [something in the natural world]" will always be deficient, and any conclusions derived from these models will always have inherent errors (even before you get to algo bias). Self-driving cars, airport face-reading gates, Pixar blockbusters...their models can never represent reality in anything but a temporarily-convincing way. Those that affect policy and peoples' lives (aka not-entertainment) will always come up with the wrong conclusion sometimes, sometimes fatally.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley

Post reply on HN