Joel Spolsky is (semi-)retired • Hacker News Board

Re: Joel Spolsky is (semi-)retired

#11

Post by rileymat2 » Sat, Dec 07, 2019, 4:23 PM UTC

Znafon wrote: post #10

toasterlovin wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that different professions earn different amounts of money is, in fact, an indicator that the higher paying professions have a shortage of people able to perform the work. Working conditions and pay for programmers are incredible and would be a life changing improvement for most people. That the profession hasn’t been flooded with talent is a strong indicator that there isn’t enough talent out there.

> The fact that different professions earn different amounts of money is, in fact, an indicator that the higher paying professions have a shortage of people able to perform the work. If we have 2000 people, we need 1000 doctors and 1000 secretary and it takes 8 years of training to be the former and 1 year for the later, won't doctors be paid more even without shortage to take into account risks and length of studies…

No, but the length of study and risk will generally cause the shortage at a particular wage.

Re: Joel Spolsky is (semi-)retired

#12

Post by monksy » Sat, Dec 07, 2019, 4:29 PM UTC

spydum wrote: post #7

chrisbennet wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite Joel article is: "Whaddaya Mean, You Can’t Find Programmers?" https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/06/15/whaddaya-mean-you-... "Now, let’s review some microeconomics. In a free market, it is almost axiomatic that the market always clears. That’s a technical term that means that when somebody tries to sell something, if they are willing to accept the market price, they will be able to sell it, and when some…

Totally agree - it still cracks me up in my particular industry. “There’s a shortage of security engineers and architects” is a common trope. No there isn’t- you just aren’t paying more than SWE and other dev salaries. People would consider switching if the money was there.

Money isn't always the reason. In Chicago there are dev companies that are so toxic or imploding that they're well known.

Re: Joel Spolsky is (semi-)retired

#13

Post by sgt101 » Sat, Dec 07, 2019, 4:29 PM UTC

The HASH write up sounds awful like multi-agent simulation. I've recently had to return to looking at these things and in a "oh my god I need to do some MAS work" type panic I was relieved and gratified to find the the GAMA platform - so far I'm impressed.

https://github.com/gama-platform/gama/releases

wonder what HASH will add to this kind of thing?

Re: Joel Spolsky is (semi-)retired

#14

Post by wglb » Sat, Dec 07, 2019, 4:33 PM UTC

azhenley wrote: post #2

The article's actual title is: "So, how’s that retirement thing going, anyway?"

When you see something like this, mail hn@ycombinator.com and they will fix it.

Re: Joel Spolsky is (semi-)retired

#15

Post by dragonwriter » Sat, Dec 07, 2019, 4:39 PM UTC

toasterlovin wrote: post #8

chrisbennet wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite Joel article is: "Whaddaya Mean, You Can’t Find Programmers?" https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/06/15/whaddaya-mean-you-... "Now, let’s review some microeconomics. In a free market, it is almost axiomatic that the market always clears. That’s a technical term that means that when somebody tries to sell something, if they are willing to accept the market price, they will be able to sell it, and when some…

The fact that different professions earn different amounts of money is, in fact, an indicator that the higher paying professions have a shortage of people able to perform the work. Working conditions and pay for programmers are incredible and would be a life changing improvement for most people. That the profession hasn’t been flooded with talent is a strong indicator that there isn’t enough talent out there.

> The fact that different professions earn different amounts of money is, in fact, an indicator that the higher paying professions have a shortage of people able to perform the work.

While prospective purchasers tend to describe a situation in which market clearing price is above the price they are willing to pay as a shortage, it's not. A shortage is when nonprice rationing results in unmet demand willing to pay above the actual trading price.

There's also a planning concept of a shortage in the form of supply inadequate to meet some threshold deemed essential, e.g., by society or authorities (which tends to result in economic shortage as price controls or nonprice rationing are imposed). Market price differences alone don't establish the existence of either type of shortage.

Re: Joel Spolsky is (semi-)retired

#16

Post by fit2rule » Sat, Dec 07, 2019, 4:41 PM UTC

Hey Joel - check out the MagicShifter - it does everything you want to do, plus more .. like MIDI! Paint your own POV pics!

http://magicshifter.net/

sources: https://github.com/magicshifter/MS3000

You can solder a long strip of LED's (we had up to 500) and address the whole thing over a handy Wifi interface .. the MS3000 provides its own web-based programming/config interface too.

We added an Arpeggiator, and MIDI too (rtpMIDI as well as hard MIDI), because why not, and this means you can sync the LED strip to your drum machine with ease, Joel .. ;)

(EDIT: douchebaggery--)

Re: Joel Spolsky is (semi-)retired

#17

Post by wglb » Sat, Dec 07, 2019, 4:46 PM UTC

spydum wrote: post #7

chrisbennet wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite Joel article is: "Whaddaya Mean, You Can’t Find Programmers?" https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/06/15/whaddaya-mean-you-... "Now, let’s review some microeconomics. In a free market, it is almost axiomatic that the market always clears. That’s a technical term that means that when somebody tries to sell something, if they are willing to accept the market price, they will be able to sell it, and when some…

Totally agree - it still cracks me up in my particular industry. “There’s a shortage of security engineers and architects” is a common trope. No there isn’t- you just aren’t paying more than SWE and other dev salaries. People would consider switching if the money was there.

I was successful in doing this.

But I started out by finding software engineers that were interested in security and were willing to learn and turned them into higher-paid security folks.

Re: Joel Spolsky is (semi-)retired

#18

Post by jgrahamc » Sat, Dec 07, 2019, 4:59 PM UTC

fit2rule wrote: post #16

Hey Joel - check out the MagicShifter - it does everything you want to do, plus more .. like MIDI! Paint your own POV pics! http://magicshifter.net/ sources: https://github.com/magicshifter/MS3000 You can solder a long strip of LED's (we had up to 500) and address the whole thing over a handy Wifi interface .. the MS3000 provides its own web-based programming/config interface too. We added an Arpeggiator, and MIDI to…

This looks cool.

But "Everything Joels' trying to do with LED's, we already did with the MagicShifter" can read very negatively. Don't underestimate the joy of doing something yourself and making it happen.

Such as me making a version of "Simon" in an Altoids can: https://blog.jgc.org/2012/05/simonoids-its-simon-in-altoids-...

Re: Joel Spolsky is (semi-)retired

#19

Post by toasterlovin » Sat, Dec 07, 2019, 5:40 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #15

toasterlovin wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that different professions earn different amounts of money is, in fact, an indicator that the higher paying professions have a shortage of people able to perform the work. Working conditions and pay for programmers are incredible and would be a life changing improvement for most people. That the profession hasn’t been flooded with talent is a strong indicator that there isn’t enough talent out there.

> The fact that different professions earn different amounts of money is, in fact, an indicator that the higher paying professions have a shortage of people able to perform the work. While prospective purchasers tend to describe a situation in which market clearing price is above the price they are willing to pay as a shortage, it's not. A shortage is when nonprice rationing results in unmet demand willing to pay abo…

Sorry, I’m using the word ‘shortage’ in the colloquial sense. I’m unaware of any technical meaning it may have in economics.

Re: Joel Spolsky is (semi-)retired

#20

Post by Nursie » Sat, Dec 07, 2019, 5:41 PM UTC

chrisbennet wrote: post #5

Clubber wrote: post #3

For those that don't know, Joel wrote many really good software development related articles/blogs in the early to mid aughts. The archives can be found on his site. I'd recommend anyone read them who works on a software development team in any capacity (management, dev, DBA, QA, etc).

My favorite Joel article is: "Whaddaya Mean, You Can’t Find Programmers?" https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/06/15/whaddaya-mean-you-... "Now, let’s review some microeconomics. In a free market, it is almost axiomatic that the market always clears. That’s a technical term that means that when somebody tries to sell something, if they are willing to accept the market price, they will be able to sell it, and when some…

Yup, this is a massive trope in the UK. "We need to import more people from wherever, there's a real shortage of software people!"

No, there's a shortage of software people who are firstly willing to work for the £30K you seem to think is reasonable and secondly (implied by the pay on offer) willing to put up with being treated as if they are a junior, unskilled office worker.

Which is why those with any ambition become contractors and consultants, or leave the county...