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Using Bee Stings to Treat Lyme Disease

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Re: Using Bee Stings to Treat Lyme Disease

#11

Post by mgamache »

magic_beans wrote: post #8
cpncrunch wrote: post #4

There is a lot of quackery surrounding lyme disease, and patients who think they might have lyme can easily end up spending a fortune on dubious treatments and unproven tests.

That's certainly true, but what other option do you have? When you have Lyme, you are an explorer in an alien landscape. Medicine has not caught up to the incidence of the disease, and people with Lyme must do something . They can't all just wait around in pain and misery for the FDA to approve a treatment.

I think the controversy is mostly around 'chronic' Lyme. It's not clear there is such a thing. It's profile (being mostly female for example) suggests it's not Lyme but some other condition that is undiagnosed. Having multiple family members with Lyme at some point I know it's a terrible disease and difficult to treat.

Re: Using Bee Stings to Treat Lyme Disease

#12

Post by mgamache »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #10

I spent some time in the Lyme disease communities after I tested positive for Lyme disease under the official two-test CDC criteria. The pop-culture version of Lyme disease discussed on the Internet has almost no resemblance to the actual medical science. There are a lot of people genuinely suffering unexplained symptoms, real pain, who are drawn into the seductive explanations of the “chronic Lyme” communities onlin…

“chronic Lyme” is probably something, just probably not literally 'chronic Lyme'. The problem is, if you think you know the cause you'll stop looking for the actual cause.

Re: Using Bee Stings to Treat Lyme Disease

#13

Post by ammon »

magic_beans wrote: post #8
cpncrunch wrote: post #4

There is a lot of quackery surrounding lyme disease, and patients who think they might have lyme can easily end up spending a fortune on dubious treatments and unproven tests.

That's certainly true, but what other option do you have? When you have Lyme, you are an explorer in an alien landscape. Medicine has not caught up to the incidence of the disease, and people with Lyme must do something . They can't all just wait around in pain and misery for the FDA to approve a treatment.

Lyme disease is easily curable with a large course of antibiotics. Now, there can be complications that persist after the infection is cured (arthritis, cardiac issues, and - controversially - fatigue and post-treatment Lyme syndrome). But the infection itself is curable today.

Re: Using Bee Stings to Treat Lyme Disease

#14

Post by LegitShady »

magic_beans wrote: post #7
kylek wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here to mention Kambo as it was my first thought too. (Kambo has been used to treat lyme disease, as well. I doubt there have been any official studies unfortunately). Also, one doesn't _need_ to use saliva, that's usually only done due to lack of clean water in the amazon (Source: am an IAKP certified practitioner)

I've been told by a practitioner that saliva activates the kambo better than plain water, but who knows. I've been trying kambo for ulcerative colitis over the past year. My gastroenterologist is perfectly happy to have me take a variety of medications for the rest of my life , whose safety has only been studied over a six-month period. Western medicine gets the job done, it's true, but it's time to open our minds to…

Some can complement but many are voodoo magic with no evidence of efficacy and advocating for their adoption to the detriment in trust in actual medical science is a grave disservice to society. You might be able to tell the difference but many people can't and what you're advocating will turn many people into Steve Jobs esque avoidable disasters because they believe some practitioner with traditional knowledge who can't read an x-ray.

Think carefully about all the effects of what you're recommending

Re: Using Bee Stings to Treat Lyme Disease

#15

Post by kylek »

magic_beans wrote: post #7
kylek wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here to mention Kambo as it was my first thought too. (Kambo has been used to treat lyme disease, as well. I doubt there have been any official studies unfortunately). Also, one doesn't _need_ to use saliva, that's usually only done due to lack of clean water in the amazon (Source: am an IAKP certified practitioner)

I've been told by a practitioner that saliva activates the kambo better than plain water, but who knows. I've been trying kambo for ulcerative colitis over the past year. My gastroenterologist is perfectly happy to have me take a variety of medications for the rest of my life , whose safety has only been studied over a six-month period. Western medicine gets the job done, it's true, but it's time to open our minds to…

Kudos for being up to the challenge of trying Kambo, it ain't an easy medicine. Am curious about any benefits you've seen to your condition (has your doctor noticed any changes?).

Western medicine does seem more concerned with maintenance of the symptoms than treating root causes unfortunately.

Since you mentioned TCM, I'd take a hard look at medicinal mushrooms like reishi and lion's mane as they're said to help with ulcers (I'm not a doctor, definitely do your own research and ask your doctor).

Re: Using Bee Stings to Treat Lyme Disease

#16

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

mgamache wrote: post #12
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #10

I spent some time in the Lyme disease communities after I tested positive for Lyme disease under the official two-test CDC criteria. The pop-culture version of Lyme disease discussed on the Internet has almost no resemblance to the actual medical science. There are a lot of people genuinely suffering unexplained symptoms, real pain, who are drawn into the seductive explanations of the “chronic Lyme” communities onlin…

“chronic Lyme” is probably something, just probably not literally 'chronic Lyme'. The problem is, if you think you know the cause you'll stop looking for the actual cause.

Sometimes what a person calls “chronic Lyme” isn’t actually anything, at least not anything pathological. I have very noticeable eye floaters (which any doctor will tell you are completely benign debris in the eye’s vitreous) and I have occasionally done a web search to learn more about how they arise, what they really look like, etc. But web searches for eye floaters these days tend to bring up a lot of people claiming that eye floaters are Lyme bacteria, or whatever, and having them is a sign of “chronic Lyme”.

In one forum thread I stumbled upon in the self-diagnosed “chronic Lyme“ community, people were claiming that eye floaters are "morgellons", i.e. the person must have chronic Lyme which in turn led to Morgellons syndrome. It was both of the imaginary diseases of the new millennium combined into one superstition!

Re: Using Bee Stings to Treat Lyme Disease

#17

Post by newnewpdro »

kylek wrote: post #6
TheGallopedHigh wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe colloquially the call that frog “the doctor” (shown in Vice Hamilton’s Pharmacopeia https://youtu.be/C3Yd7M3JNlw )

Bad video title...You don't trip on Kambo. It doesn't contain any tryptamines and is 100% legal. You wouldn't want to smoke it The bufo alvarius toad, however, contains 5-MeO-DMT (and a few other molecules). (And the only safe way to use that is to vape the excretion)

nit: s/excretion/secretion/ excretion is waste.

Re: Using Bee Stings to Treat Lyme Disease

#18

Post by kylek »

newnewpdro wrote: post #17
kylek wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad video title...You don't trip on Kambo. It doesn't contain any tryptamines and is 100% legal. You wouldn't want to smoke it The bufo alvarius toad, however, contains 5-MeO-DMT (and a few other molecules). (And the only safe way to use that is to vape the excretion)

nit: s/excretion/secretion/ excretion is waste.

Just choked on my tea laughing. Whoops typo!

Re: Using Bee Stings to Treat Lyme Disease

#19

Post by bsder »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #10

I spent some time in the Lyme disease communities after I tested positive for Lyme disease under the official two-test CDC criteria. The pop-culture version of Lyme disease discussed on the Internet has almost no resemblance to the actual medical science. There are a lot of people genuinely suffering unexplained symptoms, real pain, who are drawn into the seductive explanations of the “chronic Lyme” communities onlin…

> There are a lot of people genuinely suffering unexplained symptoms, real pain, who are drawn into the seductive explanations of the “chronic Lyme” communities online.

However, some of this is the fault of the modern medical establishment who want to stop looking and treating at 6-12 months if you don't have something mainstream diagnosable. And "Lyme" was the medical establishment dumping ground for a lot of those people--the modern equivalent to "hysteria".

In addition, modern medicine is finding that there are physiological after effects to lots of diseases even once the primary disease is cured. This is unsurprising (look at the aftereffects of polio and rubella, for example), but doesn't really seem to get discussed much since medicine can't really do anything if a virus damages nerves, for example.

(As someone who had to have his gallbladder removed, this infuriated me. I couldn't get anyone to give me any treatment for gallstones other waiting to remove my gallbladder. And, once it was removed, any digestive complications afterward were just "sucks to be you". Um, sure, the alternative was death, but is it really a "treatment" if a significant chunk of people have negative lifestyle implications afterward? And why aren't we looking for a better actual treatment? Preferably one that doesn't involve ripping out body chunks?)

However, blowing off a significant subset of people who have real symptoms is part of the reason why alternative medicine continues to have such a following in spite of the fact that it doesn't actually work.

Re: Using Bee Stings to Treat Lyme Disease

#20

Post by Vomzor »

The gold standard in microbiology for diagnosing an infectious disease has always been to culture the organism alive. Despite notorious difficulties in culturing Borrelia burgdorferi, in about 30 studies this organism has been cultured alive from patients despite at least standard antibiotic therapy, and in many cases after antibiotics far in excess of what is deemed curative by IDSA and CDC. If the pathogen that causes a disease is still present in conjunction with symptoms compatible with that infection, it would appear to me that the fundamental questions about the cause of long term symptoms should have been answered a very long time ago. To add insult to injury, recent studies from Tulane, Johns Hopkins, and Northeastern University all demonstrate that we can’t even kill Borrelia in the test tube with the currently recommended antibiotics. What are the chances that a second disease of mysterious etiology but with the same symptoms as the first disease, would come and replace the first disease when there is published evidence that the pathogen which causes the first disease persists despite both short and long-term antibiotics? There are numerous chronic bacterial infections which require long-term combination antibiotic therapies: Tuberculosis, leprosy, coxiella endcocarditis, brucellosis, Whipple’s. Why should Lyme be different?

>In 2016, Venkata Raveendra Pothineni and colleagues at Stanford reported on new drug candidates against Borrelia burgdorferi using a technique known as high-throughput screening. They ranked disulfiram as number one in activity against Bb among their top 20 hits. https://www.lymedisease.org/disulfiram-kinderlehrer/

>Dr. Kenneth Liegner has had the longest experience treating tick-borne infections with disulfiram. He is seeing sustained remissions of six months or more after completing treatment in many patients. Dr. Liegner’s first patient had been on triple antibiotic treatment for eight years for Lyme disease and babesiosis, and could not stop his treatment regimen without suffering a relapse. He took disulfiram for four months and has now been off all treatment for almost two and a half years, feeling better than ever. https://www.lymedisease.org/disulfiram-kinderlehrer-2/

Disulfiram is a gamechanger. People on reddit, on facebook and in the casestudy of Dokter Kenneth Liegner[0], people who were still sick after they were on antibiotics for years, are suddenly seeing amazing improvements after only a short time on Disulfiram.

Strange isn't it that an antimicrobial has such amazing results for a disease that supposedly is psychological or autoimmune...

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31151194

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