This is how fake democracy works.
Should people be allowed to say and write lies in a "real" democracy?
How about a Department of Truth to censor all your ideas, posts and ideologies? That should prevent fake news, right?
Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law
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Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law
#12Is there a factsheet or written definition for what actually constitutes 'Fake News' or is it "news I don't agree with?"
There were perfectly reasonable legal words available to describe fraudulent, false or factually inaccurate statements, it's sad that 'Fake News' has caught on so well as though it is a meaningful term.
Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law
#13[deleted]
Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
Should people be allowed to say and write lies in a "real" democracy?
> Should people be allowed to say and write lies in a "real" democracy? Yes. In democracy, the public are the arbiters of truth. Particularly political truth. Free speech doesn’t mean consequence-free speech. Cooling-down periods, mandatory preservation and disclosure requirements, et cetera are both prudent and commonplace. Court-supervised anti-fraud statute, which punishes for the harm done by the lie, not the spe…
Definitely the government shouldn’t be able to stop criticisms, but for outright lies, wouldn’t libel or slander laws apply?
Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
Should people be allowed to say and write lies in a "real" democracy?
> Should people be allowed to say and write lies in a "real" democracy? Yes. In democracy, the public are the arbiters of truth. Particularly political truth. Free speech doesn’t mean consequence-free speech. Cooling-down periods, mandatory preservation and disclosure requirements, et cetera are both prudent and commonplace. Court-supervised anti-fraud statute, which punishes for the harm done by the lie, not the spe…
And just spelling it out because "people should be allowed to tell lies" is terrible marketing:
There is no way to deduce the truth using the tools in the Government's toolbox or in public discourse. The more questions systems like the courts have to answer the more mistakes they will make; they aren't for discerning the truth instead only checking that standards of evidence have been met. There are a bunch of things that are untrue but that can be demonstrated to a high standard of evidence.
When governments try to do things that are impossible there are unwelcome side effects. Since they logically can't police the truth any attempt to do so will not have the intended outcome.
Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law
#16This is how fake democracy works.
Would you say that Singapore's elections are faked? And the results invalid?
Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Should people be allowed to say and write lies in a "real" democracy? Yes. In democracy, the public are the arbiters of truth. Particularly political truth. Free speech doesn’t mean consequence-free speech. Cooling-down periods, mandatory preservation and disclosure requirements, et cetera are both prudent and commonplace. Court-supervised anti-fraud statute, which punishes for the harm done by the lie, not the spe…
Definitely the government shouldn’t be able to stop criticisms, but for outright lies, wouldn’t libel or slander laws apply?
> for outright lies, wouldn’t libel or slander laws apply?
That would require the slandered party (a) prove it’s false and (b) demonstrate harm. There is also good reason for most slander and libel law withholding many remedies from public figures and politicians.
In this case, a department of a single-party city-state issued a takedown notice against allegations of election tampering. It is as illegitimate as it is Streisand-effect inducingly stupid.
Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
Should people be allowed to say and write lies in a "real" democracy?
> Should people be allowed to say and write lies in a "real" democracy? Yes. In democracy, the public are the arbiters of truth. Particularly political truth. Free speech doesn’t mean consequence-free speech. Cooling-down periods, mandatory preservation and disclosure requirements, et cetera are both prudent and commonplace. Court-supervised anti-fraud statute, which punishes for the harm done by the lie, not the spe…
So if I go out posting "JumpCrisscross is a child molester" everywhere (only, say I found your real name somehow), you're good with that? No, that would be defamation and you could get a court order to get it taken down, unless I had enough evidence to prove the claim.
> But governments should not have the power to decide if criticism is truthful or not
They do, though. And for good reason, too. You wouldn't want to lose your job over a fraudulent hitpiece.
Re: Singapore tells Facebook to correct post under new fake news law
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
Should people be allowed to say and write lies in a "real" democracy?
Yes. Follow up question: should a real democracy have a Ministry of Truth?
What I find interesting is how the discussions change based on who is involved.
For example, everyone seems to agree that ISIS videos should be removed.