Live data from Hacker News

Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

bbc.co.uk

11–20 of 303 posts

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#11

> However, it uses the Russian spelling of Crimean place names on its maps in Russia, rather than the Ukrainian spelling. The vast majority of people in Crimea are Russian speakers (as well as being ethnically Russian). It's been that way since the Russian Empire conquered the peninsula from the Ottomans in 1783. In fact, there's nearly as many Tartar (descendents of Ottomans) speakers in Crimea than Ukrainian. Last…

The majority of the people in Crimea are and were Russian at the time of vote for annexation. It makes sense that genetic Russians would want to reunite with their people.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#12
post #5

What a world we live in! Each country gets its own version of alternative reality.

That's not a new thing. Maps have been political for ages. Mandating the shape of border lines on maps has been a part of many border disputes.

Also, it's eye opening to read or watch news from other countries. There's a big country-specific bias in the selection of international news stories. This bias is a necessary evil, but it can have a huge political and cultural impact.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#13
This sort of thing happened long before technology provided mapping programs. I wonder if anyone is familiar with how these things played out in the days of published maps? I’m no historian myself. But I’m sure some map publisher had to begrudgingly admit that “their side lost” at some point.

Here’s the thing, once enough time passes, you have to start to consider that Crimea may never return to Ukrainian control.

Just because Russia’s actions have been condemned by the international community doesn’t mean those actions weren’t taken and weren’t successful.

We have to admit at some point that Russia controls this territory now because, sadly, nobody did anything significant to stop it. Russia essentially fought a brief war and won, and took territory as a result.

It’s getting to the point where a map saying that this land is inside the Ukraine is an inaccurate statement.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#14

> However, it uses the Russian spelling of Crimean place names on its maps in Russia, rather than the Ukrainian spelling. The vast majority of people in Crimea are Russian speakers (as well as being ethnically Russian). It's been that way since the Russian Empire conquered the peninsula from the Ottomans in 1783. In fact, there's nearly as many Tartar (descendents of Ottomans) speakers in Crimea than Ukrainian. Last…

By that logic, all areas of Russia where the non-Russian ethnicity is dominant (of which there are a lot) should all be written out in their respective languages.

Also, the argument "well it was like that since " does not really have traction. Why choose an arbitrary time point? Usually, these arguments fall apart when you suggest to look at .

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#15
post #5

What a world we live in! Each country gets its own version of alternative reality.

It should be marked as disputed, from both sides, like "agreed to disagree". Think what would happen if the UK took back Hong Kong, or if Hong Kong declared itself independent. We - westerners - would all love that and accept it immediately. Would we have a problem then with Apple if they showed HK as a separate country?

You might want to have a look at Taiwan.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#16
post #4

i'm a big fan of apple products and definitely bought into apple's stance -- but now i'm starting to think it's nothing more than a convenient branding campaign that only works in the USA. all these aspects that apple markets in the USA seem to be completely negotiable anywhere in the world, and i wonder how long before they can also become negotiable in the USA. in the USA, because of fairly well established democra…

Does anyone believe in "change from the inside" any more?

From a "change from the inside" perspective, Apple can make more of a positive difference in pushing forward their agenda for countries like Russia, by staying in the Russian market, complying with a few government demands, and thus offering a sub-optimal form of their products/services—but still a form that has nonzero privacy/democracy/etc.-enhancing effects, relative to the alternatives that would fill the market in their absence.

For example, iOS devices at least have a universal base image where Apple knowingly makes these changes, and as few of them as possible; whereas Android devices get their firmware tampered with in each country by that country's OEMs, and so can be made arbitrarily compromised, including making those same changes to the maps on the client side.

---

Or, to put a finer point on it: a company like Apple that offers privacy/security-enhancing products, opting out of a market because that market's government sees them as a threat and wants to neuter their abilities, would be like a peacekeeping organization opting out of a country because of the very things that make countries need peacekeeping (e.g. a failed state.)

Would you pressure KFOR to leave Kosovo because the Kosovo government doesn't let them do their jobs? No, that'd be reason for them to stay.

What's suddenly different if it's a profit-motivated corporation? They're still helping citizens evade state surveillance, even if entirely for selfish reasons.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#18
This happens pretty much everywhere with every online map. Kashmir, Taiwan, Western Sahara, etc. etc. Apple doing it for one country is not particularly news.

The only major-league mapping site I know that doesn't do local alterations is OpenStreetMap, and that's because OSM's attitude is "you want the map to show something else? sure, download the raw data and host your own instance".

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#19

> However, it uses the Russian spelling of Crimean place names on its maps in Russia, rather than the Ukrainian spelling. The vast majority of people in Crimea are Russian speakers (as well as being ethnically Russian). It's been that way since the Russian Empire conquered the peninsula from the Ottomans in 1783. In fact, there's nearly as many Tartar (descendents of Ottomans) speakers in Crimea than Ukrainian. Last…

The majority of the people in Crimea are and were Russian at the time of vote for annexation. It makes sense that genetic Russians would want to reunite with their people.

Oh wow... "Jedem das Seine", right? /s

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#20
post #7

This probably happens a lot more than you realize. Border and geographic name disputes can get very political and potentially violent. Off the top of my head: * Persian/Arabian Gulf * Palestine/Israel * Western Sahara/Morocco * Kashmir

Nagorno-Karabakh. Even Kosovo isn't really settled, and is probably the easiest one for a European to reach.
Post reply on HN