Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing material • Hacker News Board

Re: Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing material

#11

Post by crooked-v » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 8:57 PM UTC

2804t3qwp wrote: post #8

lilyball wrote: post #2

Yeah, that's because they had to watch the content anyway. Trigger warnings allow people to avoid triggering content, or to delay consuming the content until they're in a better frame of mind. If you say "This content has X, Y, and Z, and you have to consume it right now" the fact that you warned them isn't going to do much.

It feels like wasted effort in this context then. The article talks a lot about the university setting specifically, you can't just not engage with your course material and expect to have the same educational outcomes as someone who did. It seems like it'd be more effective for majors to list their trigger warnings before the course even starts with the understanding that if you can't handle the content then you shou…

I feel like even with courses taken as a given, there's still some measure of common courtesy there in stuff like "in week 2 you're going to see a pretty gross safety video, don't eat lunch beforehand".

Re: Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing material

#12

Post by lilyball » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 8:59 PM UTC

2804t3qwp wrote: post #8

lilyball wrote: post #2

Yeah, that's because they had to watch the content anyway. Trigger warnings allow people to avoid triggering content, or to delay consuming the content until they're in a better frame of mind. If you say "This content has X, Y, and Z, and you have to consume it right now" the fact that you warned them isn't going to do much.

It feels like wasted effort in this context then. The article talks a lot about the university setting specifically, you can't just not engage with your course material and expect to have the same educational outcomes as someone who did. It seems like it'd be more effective for majors to list their trigger warnings before the course even starts with the understanding that if you can't handle the content then you shou…

Yes you can. You can choose to skip a particular lecture if it's covering particularly triggering topics. If the lecture is particularly important, you can approach the professor about dealing with the lecture content in a more sensitive one-on-one context, or see if the lecture is recorded such that you can watch it later when you have more mental spoons to deal with it.

> it limits the teacher's options because suddenly material that is meant to capitalize on surprise elements becomes a liability since it's unvetted

Teachers should not be making their students uncomfortable (let alone triggering trauma) by surprise. This is a consent issue.

Re: Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing material

#13

Post by ghostpepper » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 9:03 PM UTC

lilyball wrote: post #10

fenwick67 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article does mention... > Consider a meta-analysis of 39 studies in 2007 by Sam Houston State University in Texas that found a ‘clear, consistent association’ between using avoidance-based coping strategies (that is, staying away from upsetting stressors or avoiding thinking about them) and increased psychological distress. ... BUT the operative word is "associated" not "caused"

People who can be expected to experience increased distress from the topic are much more likely to choose to avoid it, so I'm not surprised in the least by that association. Also from the article: > critics argue that the avoidance of potentially upsetting material is actually a counterproductive approach because it offers no chance to learn to manage one’s emotional reactions. This is wrong. You don't learn to manag…

I am no expert but it was my understanding that therapy for trauma often includes exposure to triggering stimuli precisely because it's not a realistic option to just hope you don't run into something triggering "in the wild" for the rest of your life.

Re: Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing material

#14

Post by eej2ya1K » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 9:08 PM UTC

lilyball wrote: post #10

fenwick67 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article does mention... > Consider a meta-analysis of 39 studies in 2007 by Sam Houston State University in Texas that found a ‘clear, consistent association’ between using avoidance-based coping strategies (that is, staying away from upsetting stressors or avoiding thinking about them) and increased psychological distress. ... BUT the operative word is "associated" not "caused"

People who can be expected to experience increased distress from the topic are much more likely to choose to avoid it, so I'm not surprised in the least by that association. Also from the article: > critics argue that the avoidance of potentially upsetting material is actually a counterproductive approach because it offers no chance to learn to manage one’s emotional reactions. This is wrong. You don't learn to manag…

"Indifferent towards rape." Seriously? Not being triggered by a depiction of a rape in a novel doesn't mean you're indifferent towards rape.

And while "springing" "triggering" "content" on a weak person is a bad idea, encouraging them to seek out triggering content on their own and approach it at their own pace is going to create a stronger, better person. It's not just about the trigger either - learning that you can overcome something like that is extremely empowering. Hiding for the rest of your life is slowly going to turn you into a coward.

Re: Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing material

#15

Post by ceejayoz » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 9:08 PM UTC

ghostpepper wrote: post #13

lilyball wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who can be expected to experience increased distress from the topic are much more likely to choose to avoid it, so I'm not surprised in the least by that association. Also from the article: > critics argue that the avoidance of potentially upsetting material is actually a counterproductive approach because it offers no chance to learn to manage one’s emotional reactions. This is wrong. You don't learn to manag…

I am no expert but it was my understanding that therapy for trauma often includes exposure to triggering stimuli precisely because it's not a realistic option to just hope you don't run into something triggering "in the wild" for the rest of your life.

Yes, it may, particularly if it's an unavoidable trigger.

That should be done safely and consensually within the context of a therapy session/plan with a professional guiding it.

It's like surgery. Entirely acceptable in certain scenarios, but you'd object if your English lit prof decided to DIY it during class.

Re: Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing material

#16

Post by eej2ya1K » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 9:11 PM UTC

ghostpepper wrote: post #13

lilyball wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who can be expected to experience increased distress from the topic are much more likely to choose to avoid it, so I'm not surprised in the least by that association. Also from the article: > critics argue that the avoidance of potentially upsetting material is actually a counterproductive approach because it offers no chance to learn to manage one’s emotional reactions. This is wrong. You don't learn to manag…

I am no expert but it was my understanding that therapy for trauma often includes exposure to triggering stimuli precisely because it's not a realistic option to just hope you don't run into something triggering "in the wild" for the rest of your life.

It includes exposure, yes, but the idea is to encourage the patient/client to decide to seek out triggering stimuli themselves.

Re: Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing material

#17

Post by ceejayoz » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 9:11 PM UTC

eej2ya1K wrote: post #14

lilyball wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who can be expected to experience increased distress from the topic are much more likely to choose to avoid it, so I'm not surprised in the least by that association. Also from the article: > critics argue that the avoidance of potentially upsetting material is actually a counterproductive approach because it offers no chance to learn to manage one’s emotional reactions. This is wrong. You don't learn to manag…

"Indifferent towards rape." Seriously? Not being triggered by a depiction of a rape in a novel doesn't mean you're indifferent towards rape. And while "springing" "triggering" "content" on a weak person is a bad idea, encouraging them to seek out triggering content on their own and approach it at their own pace is going to create a stronger, better person. It's not just about the trigger either - learning that you ca…

> Not being triggered by a depiction of a rape in a novel doesn't mean you're indifferent towards rape.

That wasn't the point being made.

The point is that if depictions of rape are triggering to you, it's not necessarily important to work on not being triggered by rape depictions. Avoidance is generally acceptable there.

Re: Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing material

#18

Post by ghusbands » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 9:11 PM UTC

While avoidant behaviours often aren't ideal in isolation, they can still be part of useful recovery. If you're getting therapy for trauma, the therapy may expose you to triggers in a controlled fashion to help you reprocess the relevant trauma and memories (for example, using EMDR [1]). Exposure outside of the therapy can still be damaging.

Not all avoidance and exposure are equal.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_movement_desensitization_a...

Re: Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing material

#19

Post by watwut » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 9:13 PM UTC

ghostpepper wrote: post #13

lilyball wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who can be expected to experience increased distress from the topic are much more likely to choose to avoid it, so I'm not surprised in the least by that association. Also from the article: > critics argue that the avoidance of potentially upsetting material is actually a counterproductive approach because it offers no chance to learn to manage one’s emotional reactions. This is wrong. You don't learn to manag…

I am no expert but it was my understanding that therapy for trauma often includes exposure to triggering stimuli precisely because it's not a realistic option to just hope you don't run into something triggering "in the wild" for the rest of your life.

Yes, but you do that with therapist in setting where potential meltdown has no consequences to you or other people. The therapist is also supposed to decide your progress based on how it is going.

Re: Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing material

#20

Post by tekproxy » Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 9:13 PM UTC

ghostpepper wrote: post #13

lilyball wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who can be expected to experience increased distress from the topic are much more likely to choose to avoid it, so I'm not surprised in the least by that association. Also from the article: > critics argue that the avoidance of potentially upsetting material is actually a counterproductive approach because it offers no chance to learn to manage one’s emotional reactions. This is wrong. You don't learn to manag…

I am no expert but it was my understanding that therapy for trauma often includes exposure to triggering stimuli precisely because it's not a realistic option to just hope you don't run into something triggering "in the wild" for the rest of your life.

My dog was afraid of taking a bath. I fixed this by rewarding her for coming into the bathroom. Once she was comfortable, I got her into the tub and rewarded her. After 15 minutes of "exposure therapy" she loves jumping into the tub and it's easier for both of us when she's stinky. I'm pretty sure people work similarly but it's hard to reward them with dog food.