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Phoebus Cartel

en.wikipedia.org

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Re: Phoebus Cartel

#11

Post by gaius_baltar »

solotronics wrote: post #6
the-dude wrote: post #3

Today, another halogen lightbulb failed at my house. These are the very unreliable replacements for incandescent bulbs as mandated by the EU.

why not use LED lights? at this point they are much cheaper and a magnitude more efficient compared with halogen

> why not use LED lights?

OP didn't provide details, but sometimes LEDs are a no-go, e.g., RFI from the internal power source in lab environments.

Re: Phoebus Cartel

#12

Post by jml7c5 »

I'm hoping someone clever here has read a book about the cartel and can answer this question: The wiki page doesn't go into too much detail, but is there any evidence the primary goal of the cartel was primarily intended to increase energy efficiency, or was it really pure unadulterated greed?

Honestly, were it for the sake of efficiency, I wouldn't mind it. Though the metric of lifetime in hours rather than lumen/watt makes my approval borderline rather than whole-hearted.

Re: Phoebus Cartel

#13

Post by andrepd »

the-dude wrote: post #3

Today, another halogen lightbulb failed at my house. These are the very unreliable replacements for incandescent bulbs as mandated by the EU.

This is truly a "The Sun"-tier comment. So many things are wrong. The EU did not mandate halogen bulbs, it phased out incandescent bulbs, with many exceptions for situations and use-cases where alternatives are inadequate. You can (and should) buy LEDs which are many times more efficient and cheaper (per hour of life) that incandescent bulbs. Finally, halogen bulbs are not only not "mandated" but actually in the processed of being phased out as well.

Re: Phoebus Cartel

#14

Post by acd »

Related https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence

I would argue that the current economic system does not plan for maximum longevity of products. Rather it can be more profitable for an manufacturer for planned obsolescence or simply make products which does not last that long. As long as they do not get caught that is.

Re: Phoebus Cartel

#15

Post by fsh »

macspoofing wrote: post #5

The worst thing about the Phoebus Cartel is that for something that lasted just a few years (and didn't really work), it is constantly cited as the quintessential example of 'planned obsolescence' and therefore one of the evils of capitalism. 'Planned obsolescence' itself, is an overstated and overrated concept that is frequently conflated with common practices like making a product cheaper through the use of lower-q…

"Planned obsolescence" and "value engineering" have almost the same effect for the customers though. Products are designed to just barely survive the EU's two year mandatory warranty period.

Re: Phoebus Cartel

#16

Post by andrepd »

fsh wrote: post #15
macspoofing wrote: post #5

The worst thing about the Phoebus Cartel is that for something that lasted just a few years (and didn't really work), it is constantly cited as the quintessential example of 'planned obsolescence' and therefore one of the evils of capitalism. 'Planned obsolescence' itself, is an overstated and overrated concept that is frequently conflated with common practices like making a product cheaper through the use of lower-q…

"Planned obsolescence" and "value engineering" have almost the same effect for the customers though. Products are designed to just barely survive the EU's two year mandatory warranty period.

Maybe it's time to up that warranty period? Perhaps even different values for different kinds of products (3 years for a phone, 8 years for a washing machine, etc.).

Re: Phoebus Cartel

#17

Post by the-dude »

andrepd wrote: post #13
the-dude wrote: post #3

Today, another halogen lightbulb failed at my house. These are the very unreliable replacements for incandescent bulbs as mandated by the EU.

This is truly a "The Sun"-tier comment. So many things are wrong. The EU did not mandate halogen bulbs, it phased out incandescent bulbs, with many exceptions for situations and use-cases where alternatives are inadequate . You can (and should) buy LEDs which are many times more efficient and cheaper (per hour of life) that incandescent bulbs. Finally, halogen bulbs are not only not "mandated" but actually in the pro…

This is truly a comment with a sign-of-the-times : polarisation.

"There is something wrong in your statement. You must be a deplorable."

Thank you for participating in this forum.

Re: Phoebus Cartel

#18

Post by stevehawk »

acd wrote: post #14

Related https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence I would argue that the current economic system does not plan for maximum longevity of products. Rather it can be more profitable for an manufacturer for planned obsolescence or simply make products which does not last that long. As long as they do not get caught that is.

The counter to this is that people, despite saying otherwise, are not actually interested in spending more money for a better product. Combine that with some markets that have relatively short life between product generations and it removes the need to create products that last a long time.

It's more fun and easier to blame corporate greed, but it's rarely the case. More often than not it's just that people want "cheaper" rather than "better".

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