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Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

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Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#11

Post by dragonwriter »

theandrewbailey wrote: post #5

OK, so what stops the TSA/DHS from saying "We suspect you are a terrorist; please unlock your phone"? Their actions have effectively said that for almost 20 years.

“suspicionless searches” refers to searches without reasonable suspicion; absent particular evidence providing grounds for reasonable suspicion particular to the searched individual, any search would remain “suspicionless” as the term is used in 4th Amendment law; the test has both subjective (was there actual suspicion) and objective (was that suspicion reasonably grounded) elements.

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#12

Post by Fellshard »

Open question, here: Doesn't this backfire and make TSA more likely to operate on the basis of profiling alone? What makes a traveler suspect?

This reminds me of Sowell's distinction between 'Type I' and 'Type II' discrimination: when all other information is forbidden from you, you'll end up using the only information you have as your heuristic, however noisy and biased that information might be compared to a more comprehensive source. This leads to incidental systemic discrimination.

That said, if 'suspicionless' is tied to concrete external evidence rather than mere profiling, this should be a good move.

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#13

Post by _Codemonkeyism »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #6
theandrewbailey wrote: post #5

OK, so what stops the TSA/DHS from saying "We suspect you are a terrorist; please unlock your phone"? Their actions have effectively said that for almost 20 years.

> what stops the TSA/DHS from saying "We suspect you are a terrorist; please unlock your phone"? The same thing that stops all tyranny. A vigilant and engaged citizen body. Practically, this means donating to the ACLU and related groups. It also means, if you’re party to injustice, suing or reaching out to organisation who can help you sue to assert our rights.

"The same thing that stops all tyranny. A vigilant and engaged citizen body."

Because I'm interested, what would be the top three situations where that happened that come to your mind?

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#14

Post by koenigdavidmj »

mikece wrote: post #10
theandrewbailey wrote: post #5

OK, so what stops the TSA/DHS from saying "We suspect you are a terrorist; please unlock your phone"? Their actions have effectively said that for almost 20 years.

Ask them to explain what their reasonable suspicion basis for wanting to search your phone is. Without reasonable suspicion it's, by definition, an unreasonable search.

To add onto this, unreasonable doesn’t mean “unfair”. It means “backed by reason”.

Like in a jury case, reasonable doubt doesn’t mean “a small level of doubt is acceptable”. It means that “aliens made me do it” is not sufficient to counter evidence.

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#15

Post by AnimalMuppet »

akersten wrote: post #9

Does this apply to the "special Constitution zone" that intrudes 100 miles inland from the US border? Doesn't matter if it's constitutional or not if you're in a no-constitution zone.

Hmm. Has the Supreme Court ever ruled that the "special Constitution zone" was constitutional? Because, on its face, it looks like it's not...

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#16

Post by undersuit »

theandrewbailey wrote: post #5

OK, so what stops the TSA/DHS from saying "We suspect you are a terrorist; please unlock your phone"? Their actions have effectively said that for almost 20 years.

Hopefully you don't need to visit grandma, the onus is now on you to defend your rights. Like Ghassan and Nadia Alasaad and the nine other people who resisted similar requests from the government.

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#17

Post by csours »

ISL wrote: post #2

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Sounds like the Court got it right.

I suspect you may know this, but there exist many locations and circumstances wherein various rights are suspended.

https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#19

Post by 1MoreThing »

coldcode wrote: post #4

Good. Also given there is no one running Homeland Security I wonder if it's even likely that this will be pushed to the SC.

Don't confuse the lack of a Senate-approved director with a lack of someone in power at a government agency. There are very much people running the Department of Homeland Security.
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