Underground lottery has existed throughout history and continents, it is a form of gambling that has always been frowned upon by greater society, but accepted as a social thing between community members.
Running an Underground Lottery in Detroit
11–20 of 34 posts
Re: Running an Underground Lottery in Detroit
#12I had to look this up, because the article doesn't really explain it very well (maybe it's common knowledge, but not to me): it seems the numbers "drawn" were usually taken from a publicly verifiable source of randomness. In many cases that was apparently the last three digits of the number of bettors who participated at major race tracks that day, and that number was widely published. In that regard it seems a prett…
I used to work at a lottery Corp here in Canada. Years ago when speaking with the compliance officer we discussed one of the local draws (the lottery itself is national). The big "bingo machine" used has balls in it that are mixed then one falls out. The balls were locked in a safe between uses. In a locked room. In a building with security and many cameras. Each door had a door swipe with each user having specific s…
> Now imagine the rules and procedures of an underground lottery.
That's what makes it so fascinating. The bingo ball machine concept you describe requires a lot of trust, that's why so much effort has to go into continuous verification. As resiliency goes, this isn't really a feature.
The underground lottery is interesting precisely because it requires comparatively little trust, and the trust it does require is based on reputation and decentralization. For example, as a numbers player, you would be placing your bets with the same banker, one who you know has always paid out in the past, and who has personal ties to you and your neighborhood. The data source and hence the information about whether or not you won is public and hard to fake.
What makes numbers an illegal racket probably has more to do with low payout ratios and the fact that it's not linked in with the tax system (also, it's an unregulated chaos of private persons conducting it).
Re: Running an Underground Lottery in Detroit
#13Earlier quoted context omitted.
From my own experiences in NY, it was normally the first three numbers of the winning horses at a particular race at a particular track. It varied depending on whose numbers game you were talking about. I had an uncle who was involved with it. He was a money collector, among other things. Yes, it was run by the mob. No, I was not a participant. Yes, these where Italian immigrants. As far as "illegal" goes, yes number…
Many people call the lottery a "Stupidity Tax". My dad calls it a "Desperation Tax", which I tend to agree with. I don't think states should have them.
North Carolina held out against having a state lottery for a very long time. The corrupt pols eventually won. The money supposedly goes to education. In reality, it goes into the general fund. That is of note because unlike other states where I have lived, North Carolina seems to rake in a lot of money and little to no overt signs of where the money goes. I live in a different state now and I think I can tell that the tax dollars here aren't being stolen to such a high degree. NC had all kinds of taxes but I had a tough time seeing where any of that money actually went.
Living in NY, you knew it was all corrupt unions and such, so you never had to wonder.
Re: Running an Underground Lottery in Detroit
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
From my own experiences in NY, it was normally the first three numbers of the winning horses at a particular race at a particular track. It varied depending on whose numbers game you were talking about. I had an uncle who was involved with it. He was a money collector, among other things. Yes, it was run by the mob. No, I was not a participant. Yes, these where Italian immigrants. As far as "illegal" goes, yes number…
Many people call the lottery a "Stupidity Tax". My dad calls it a "Desperation Tax", which I tend to agree with. I don't think states should have them.
Maybe not but if the state doesn't have them, they will play underground ones. The state ones are guaranteed to pay with low likelihood of fraud. The underground ones have no such promise. I understand that you wish poor people wouldn't gamble but they tend to so given that they will, what is the better solution? State run or underground?
Re: Running an Underground Lottery in Detroit
#15I had to look this up, because the article doesn't really explain it very well (maybe it's common knowledge, but not to me): it seems the numbers "drawn" were usually taken from a publicly verifiable source of randomness. In many cases that was apparently the last three digits of the number of bettors who participated at major race tracks that day, and that number was widely published. In that regard it seems a prett…
The source of the randomness is one tampering detail. Who published the size of the payout?
In general, it is not like a lottery with all winners evenly sharing (most of) the proceeds. Instead, there is a fixed payout, typically around 60% payback. So with 3 digits (1000 combinations), the payout would be $600 for $1 bet.
Re: Running an Underground Lottery in Detroit
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
From my own experiences in NY, it was normally the first three numbers of the winning horses at a particular race at a particular track. It varied depending on whose numbers game you were talking about. I had an uncle who was involved with it. He was a money collector, among other things. Yes, it was run by the mob. No, I was not a participant. Yes, these where Italian immigrants. As far as "illegal" goes, yes number…
Many people call the lottery a "Stupidity Tax". My dad calls it a "Desperation Tax", which I tend to agree with. I don't think states should have them.
Depends on the Pot odds - with the Big UK and Euro lotteries if there are enough rollovers it does become a sensible bet.
I normally get a couple of tickets when the Euro lottery gets large - just for fun.
Re: Running an Underground Lottery in Detroit
#17I had to look this up, because the article doesn't really explain it very well (maybe it's common knowledge, but not to me): it seems the numbers "drawn" were usually taken from a publicly verifiable source of randomness. In many cases that was apparently the last three digits of the number of bettors who participated at major race tracks that day, and that number was widely published. In that regard it seems a prett…
From my own experiences in NY, it was normally the first three numbers of the winning horses at a particular race at a particular track. It varied depending on whose numbers game you were talking about. I had an uncle who was involved with it. He was a money collector, among other things. Yes, it was run by the mob. No, I was not a participant. Yes, these where Italian immigrants. As far as "illegal" goes, yes number…
Interesting I can relate as some who is related by marriage to one of the well know Birmingham based bookies, my Great Great, Great Uncle was scary guy from all reports
Watching peaky blinders Is interesting and I a have a cousin who is an actor who is the direct descendant (and could probably do a better brummie accent)
Re: Running an Underground Lottery in Detroit
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
Many people call the lottery a "Stupidity Tax". My dad calls it a "Desperation Tax", which I tend to agree with. I don't think states should have them.
Maybe not but if the state doesn't have them, they will play underground ones. The state ones are guaranteed to pay with low likelihood of fraud. The underground ones have no such promise. I understand that you wish poor people wouldn't gamble but they tend to so given that they will, what is the better solution? State run or underground?
For a lot of the people who play there's little practical difference between fraud and fine print.
There's also a conflict of interest. The state is responsible for math education while having an interest in people not doing the math.
Re: Running an Underground Lottery in Detroit
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
Many people call the lottery a "Stupidity Tax". My dad calls it a "Desperation Tax", which I tend to agree with. I don't think states should have them.
Depends on the Pot odds - with the Big UK and Euro lotteries if there are enough rollovers it does become a sensible bet. I normally get a couple of tickets when the Euro lottery gets large - just for fun.
The math behind "sensible bet" relies on the period of time between winnings being shorter than your lifetime. Unless you're buying a huge number of tickets, even the big jackpots aren't worth playing, except just for fun.
Just for fun, you could take the money you'd spend on a lottery ticket and hand it to the next person you see, just to see how they react.
Re: Running an Underground Lottery in Detroit
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
Depends on the Pot odds - with the Big UK and Euro lotteries if there are enough rollovers it does become a sensible bet. I normally get a couple of tickets when the Euro lottery gets large - just for fun.
The math behind "sensible bet" relies on the period of time between winnings being shorter than your lifetime. Unless you're buying a huge number of tickets, even the big jackpots aren't worth playing, except just for fun. Just for fun, you could take the money you'd spend on a lottery ticket and hand it to the next person you see, just to see how they react.
Ah, but even if the net EV is negative, it still makes sense to part with a bit of money that you won't care about, for a miniscule chance of receiving a life-changing amount of money.
If you're not just barely scraping together, dropping $25 on a negative EV lottery is not going to make one whit of difference to your finances. But it might change your life.
Dropping $25,000 on a positive EV lottery, on the other hand, is an incredibly dumb move.
Since most poor people will, in fact, miss that $25, the lottery is a really bad idea for them. Yet, they play it a lot more than the middle class do...