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Chicago book returns surge 240% after city eliminates fines

abc7chicago.com

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Re: Chicago book returns surge 240% after city eliminates fines

#11

Post by kylek »

jcims wrote: post #7

They should work with the post office to accept returns. I live ten miles away from the closest library. It never makes sense to drive there solely to return a book and I work from home 95% of the time, so I’m rarely there by chance. As a result, i never go to the library. If i could chuck the book into my mailbox to return it I’d stop by more often.

I wonder if a "DVD-era Netflix-style" library could be a thing? i.e. a paid-postage return envelope included when you check a book out. (I'm guessing the physical size of a DVD is the only thing that made that trick viable for netflix)

Re: Chicago book returns surge 240% after city eliminates fines

#12

Post by jcims »

kylek wrote: post #11
jcims wrote: post #7

They should work with the post office to accept returns. I live ten miles away from the closest library. It never makes sense to drive there solely to return a book and I work from home 95% of the time, so I’m rarely there by chance. As a result, i never go to the library. If i could chuck the book into my mailbox to return it I’d stop by more often.

I wonder if a "DVD-era Netflix-style" library could be a thing? i.e. a paid-postage return envelope included when you check a book out. (I'm guessing the physical size of a DVD is the only thing that made that trick viable for netflix)

Possibly. My thinking with the post office is that they would only work with the local library system, and to keep costs down even more could even just collect the books at the post office and someone from the library would collect them.

Lots of logistics and not very likely but I know it would remove my primary impediment to using the local library.

Re: Chicago book returns surge 240% after city eliminates fines

#13

Post by save_ferris »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #3

I honestly think it is the novelty of suddenly not having fines rather than the actual not having of fines. IMHO (most) people don’t not return books when they’re a day or a week late because of fines. Ultimately, I believe it’s too early to draw any conclusions beyond observing the number of books returned for now . It will certainly be interesting to see where the steady state will wind up, though. (I’m a CPL membe…

I tend to agree. Many municipalities offer an annual discount day for folks who have outstanding toll road charges that aren't worth sending to collections. Voluntary payment skyrockets during these kinds of things.

Re: Chicago book returns surge 240% after city eliminates fines

#14

Post by smadge »

tedunangst wrote: post #8

Chicago made you pay the fine when you returned the book? You can't just drop it in the return and pay the fine later when you want to check out another book?

I don’t know if this is what goes through people’s heads, but why bother to spend the time to return the book and lose access to its utility when you can just keep it.

Re: Chicago book returns surge 240% after city eliminates fines

#15

Post by donw »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #3

I honestly think it is the novelty of suddenly not having fines rather than the actual not having of fines. IMHO (most) people don’t not return books when they’re a day or a week late because of fines. Ultimately, I believe it’s too early to draw any conclusions beyond observing the number of books returned for now . It will certainly be interesting to see where the steady state will wind up, though. (I’m a CPL membe…

Agreed that more data is required to draw any sort of conclusion from this.

That said, my understanding of behavioral therapy is that you reward desired behaviors and ignore unwanted behaviors. Punishment is also on the table for flagrant violation of the rules, but it needs to be applied equally and immediately.

With that in mind, how does the library system reward good actors -- those that return books on-time, that sort of thing? It's really hard to shape behavior when you have a surplus of sticks and a notable lack of carrots.

Re: Chicago book returns surge 240% after city eliminates fines

#16

Post by hanoz »

donw wrote: post #15
ComputerGuru wrote: post #3

I honestly think it is the novelty of suddenly not having fines rather than the actual not having of fines. IMHO (most) people don’t not return books when they’re a day or a week late because of fines. Ultimately, I believe it’s too early to draw any conclusions beyond observing the number of books returned for now . It will certainly be interesting to see where the steady state will wind up, though. (I’m a CPL membe…

Agreed that more data is required to draw any sort of conclusion from this. That said, my understanding of behavioral therapy is that you reward desired behaviors and ignore unwanted behaviors. Punishment is also on the table for flagrant violation of the rules, but it needs to be applied equally and immediately. With that in mind, how does the library system reward good actors -- those that return books on-time, tha…

> With that in mind, how does the library system reward good actors -- those that return books on-time, that sort of thing?

A reward of an increase in their simultaneous loan allowance might be warmly received perhaps, whilst not actually taken advantage of to any detrimental extent.

Re: Chicago book returns surge 240% after city eliminates fines

#17

Post by loeg »

donw wrote: post #15
ComputerGuru wrote: post #3

I honestly think it is the novelty of suddenly not having fines rather than the actual not having of fines. IMHO (most) people don’t not return books when they’re a day or a week late because of fines. Ultimately, I believe it’s too early to draw any conclusions beyond observing the number of books returned for now . It will certainly be interesting to see where the steady state will wind up, though. (I’m a CPL membe…

Agreed that more data is required to draw any sort of conclusion from this. That said, my understanding of behavioral therapy is that you reward desired behaviors and ignore unwanted behaviors. Punishment is also on the table for flagrant violation of the rules, but it needs to be applied equally and immediately. With that in mind, how does the library system reward good actors -- those that return books on-time, tha…

Deposit-return system for books? (Though it has obvious drawbacks that might outweigh any positives.)

Re: Chicago book returns surge 240% after city eliminates fines

#18

Post by teeray »

donw wrote: post #15
ComputerGuru wrote: post #3

I honestly think it is the novelty of suddenly not having fines rather than the actual not having of fines. IMHO (most) people don’t not return books when they’re a day or a week late because of fines. Ultimately, I believe it’s too early to draw any conclusions beyond observing the number of books returned for now . It will certainly be interesting to see where the steady state will wind up, though. (I’m a CPL membe…

Agreed that more data is required to draw any sort of conclusion from this. That said, my understanding of behavioral therapy is that you reward desired behaviors and ignore unwanted behaviors. Punishment is also on the table for flagrant violation of the rules, but it needs to be applied equally and immediately. With that in mind, how does the library system reward good actors -- those that return books on-time, tha…

> how does the library system reward good actors

One thought would be to take a page from airlines and institute the equivalent of status tiers. For example, returning books on time gets you further towards the front of the line when waiting for items on-hold and earlier access to new releases.

Re: Chicago book returns surge 240% after city eliminates fines

#19

Post by loeg »

kylek wrote: post #11
jcims wrote: post #7

They should work with the post office to accept returns. I live ten miles away from the closest library. It never makes sense to drive there solely to return a book and I work from home 95% of the time, so I’m rarely there by chance. As a result, i never go to the library. If i could chuck the book into my mailbox to return it I’d stop by more often.

I wonder if a "DVD-era Netflix-style" library could be a thing? i.e. a paid-postage return envelope included when you check a book out. (I'm guessing the physical size of a DVD is the only thing that made that trick viable for netflix)

> (I'm guessing the physical size of a DVD is the only thing that made that trick viable for netflix)

That and the durable plastic cases.

You could do this for small paperbacks in padded mailers, but it'd wear them down faster than they already wear.

Re: Chicago book returns surge 240% after city eliminates fines

#20

Post by geofft »

chrischen wrote: post #2

Between not paying fines and not paying fines, of course people are going to choose to not pay fines.

But that's not the choice, the choice is between paying the fine or being unable to use the library.

The whole idea behind fines is that 1) imposing fines motivates people to return books on time and 2) disabling future borrowing motivates people to pay the fine, thereby making the motivation from 1 actually work. I don't think it's an "of course" level of obviousness that this scheme doesn't work in practice—otherwise libraries would have abandoned fines long ago.

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