On Gatekeeping, Complicity, and Arrival • Hacker News Board

Re: On Gatekeeping, Complicity, and Arrival

#11

Post by jaster » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 4:27 PM UTC

wisty wrote: post #6

> His proposed solution is to get John, a man who has publicly stated that he speaks in bad faith, together with the people he attacked for a “conversation”. I feel like "bad faith" is now a thought-terminating cliche. As long as people can suggest someone is acting in "bad faith" (maybe doing a "Gish Gallop", a "false equivalence" or even just "motivated reasoning") then they can instantly ignore everything they've…

I would agree with you in theory, but in this case it does not seems to hold. Not knowing anything about the people involved I got looking around on the twitter discussions mentioned to form my own opinion.

Here I found the following message from John S. :

I've said a lot of "odd" things on Twitter recently.

Why? Because this, my friends, is how you deal with SJWs. You troll the hell out of them and they have no weapon they can use against you.

Stop fighting them with logic. Just say inflammatory, illogical things to them.

(not linking the exact tweet, I don't want to encourage brigading)

Whatever your stance is on the issue, John has explicitly stated that he is ready to speak in bad faith here. So no in this case it does not seems like a cliche or a logical fallacy to me.

Re: On Gatekeeping, Complicity, and Arrival

#12

Post by jesterman81 » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 4:41 PM UTC

Did he take this down since he just committed libel against someone? Complete conjecture. Charles even offers to have a conversation to understand each other....NO NO NO, you disagree with me. Die heretic, Die! I went and looked at Chucks tweets to people that disagreed with him. He was civil and asked for a deeper conversation. The majority of responses were uncivil. That fact along makes me want to side with Charles...but really I don’t side with any of these charlatans.

I would not want to work with Avdi. If you say something that he misconstrues as bad he will ‘cancel’ you. He can go sell his gospel to some other weak minded fool. In fact his books are not even that good...see how easy that was.

How racist is it to not want to promote someone or prefer to promote others based on race/sex? Is that not the very definition of racism/sexism? Screw Avdi, HE is part of the problem, one side of the same coin.

Re: On Gatekeeping, Complicity, and Arrival

#13

Post by ghostbrainalpha » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 5:03 PM UTC

The direct link isn't working anymore but you can still see the post easily at the top of his blog.

https://avdi.codes/blog/

Re: On Gatekeeping, Complicity, and Arrival

#14

Post by ghostbrainalpha » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 5:06 PM UTC

jesterman81 wrote: post #12

Did he take this down since he just committed libel against someone? Complete conjecture. Charles even offers to have a conversation to understand each other....NO NO NO, you disagree with me. Die heretic, Die! I went and looked at Chucks tweets to people that disagreed with him. He was civil and asked for a deeper conversation. The majority of responses were uncivil. That fact along makes me want to side with Charle…

He didn't take it down. Just changed the Title a tiny bit which broke the link.

https://avdi.codes/blog/

Re: On Gatekeeping, Complicity, and Arrival

#15

Post by mcphage » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 8:46 PM UTC

wisty wrote: post #6

> His proposed solution is to get John, a man who has publicly stated that he speaks in bad faith, together with the people he attacked for a “conversation”. I feel like "bad faith" is now a thought-terminating cliche. As long as people can suggest someone is acting in "bad faith" (maybe doing a "Gish Gallop", a "false equivalence" or even just "motivated reasoning") then they can instantly ignore everything they've…

> I feel like "bad faith" is now a thought-terminating cliche. As long as people can suggest someone is acting in "bad faith" (maybe doing a "Gish Gallop", a "false equivalence" or even just "motivated reasoning") then they can instantly ignore everything they've said.

The problem is that many people do argue in bad faith. Sure, in some cases it can be difficult to prove—although not in this particular case—and recognizing that fact prevents you from wasting your time in pointless discussions. Even if you have unlimited time to spend arguing with people on the internet, surely you'd want to spend that time having an honest conversation, right?