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Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

theweek.com

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Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#11

Post by ebg13 »

perceptronas wrote: post #10

>After the 2008 recession, President Obama and the Democrats effectively saved capitalism from itself; a more radical leadership would fight to replace it with a better system. This time around there may be far more pressure from below to do just that, especially with a more organized left and more class conscious young people. As a former soviet occupied country citizen, I am amazed that westerners would want to ove…

> As a former soviet occupied country citizen, I am amazed that westerners would want to overthrow capitalism.

They would probably say that they perceive a difference between "democratic socialism" and "fascist communism".

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#12

Post by rswskg »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #9
corporateslave5 wrote: post #6

[flagged]

Most young people are paradoxically for unfettered immigration I'm not sure that is true.

The woke young programmers of the bay (and elsewhere) consider any form of border control racist. I've seen this queried for exceptions, eg for convicted rapists and the rabid blue hairs torn that suggestion apart as a 'racist straw man'.

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#13

Post by Ididntdothis »

corporateslave5 wrote: post #6

[flagged]

I don’t believe people are really against capitalism but they have some legitimate concerns about the current form of capitalism. I don’t think many want to address these by moving to communism. But ideologues will always want to move things away from a nuanced and open discussion to an extreme so it’s easier to draw battle lines. Happened to health care and it’s now happening to things like immigration and social justice.

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#15

Post by xienze »

wayoutthere wrote: post #8

In the US, it's less active protest and more things like slacking off heavily at work because it's a treadmill we can't win. We have absolutely no incentive to work hard when doing so doesn't materially affect income. We as a nation have basically told people "no, you can't have a comfortable life or save for retirement because your parents' generation still needs to get 10% annual growth to make their retirement mat…

> We have absolutely no incentive to work hard when doing so doesn't materially affect income.

And you think that would improve under socialism or communism?

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#16

Post by ClumsyPilot »

corporateslave5 wrote: post #6

[flagged]

I can't comment on US, but Germany and some other EU countries have fertility rate below 1.5. Without immigration the system will collapse as pensioners will outnumber working population.

EDIT: this is an observation, I am not advocating 'substitution'

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#17

Post by toomuchtodo »

xienze wrote: post #15
wayoutthere wrote: post #8

In the US, it's less active protest and more things like slacking off heavily at work because it's a treadmill we can't win. We have absolutely no incentive to work hard when doing so doesn't materially affect income. We as a nation have basically told people "no, you can't have a comfortable life or save for retirement because your parents' generation still needs to get 10% annual growth to make their retirement mat…

> We have absolutely no incentive to work hard when doing so doesn't materially affect income. And you think that would improve under socialism or communism?

It would likely improve under democratic socialism (which is not the same model as communism or socialism). Especially if we disconnect healthcare from employment allowing workers more freedom to pick employers or entrepreneurship. People want purpose, but they also need their basic needs met. They have to have hope they won't spend their lives on an economic treadmill where one slip will cause their demise. This is not an unreasonable ask in the wealthiest country in the world.

It is clear the current economic system is dysfunctional and requires refactoring (50% of bankruptices are from medical debt, and this occurs in no other developed country, for example), I'm unsure how that would even be up for debate. So if we can come to the conclusion (from objective data based on income levels, household wealth, debt, well being) that the current system isn't working, why would anyone advocate for it to continue as is?

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#18

Post by jahaja »

douglaswlance wrote: post #5
jahaja wrote: post #2

Imagine if the current protests against inequality (and thereabouts) going on all around the world would be reported, scrutinized, and debated as much as when any of the established "enemies" have civil unrest. How quickly would things change?

Imagine if instead of people protesting against income inequality, they protested against value contribution inequality...

Protest against imagined slackers? What kind of a dystopia is that?

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#19

Post by diminoten »

perceptronas wrote: post #10

>After the 2008 recession, President Obama and the Democrats effectively saved capitalism from itself; a more radical leadership would fight to replace it with a better system. This time around there may be far more pressure from below to do just that, especially with a more organized left and more class conscious young people. As a former soviet occupied country citizen, I am amazed that westerners would want to ove…

They don't, this author does not represent the views of the vast silent majority.

Something like medicare for all is what Americans may want, but strong businesses are a backbone of American culture, not even the leftest of leaning elected politicians in Congress are a threat to that.

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#20

Post by throwawayjava »

perceptronas wrote: post #10

>After the 2008 recession, President Obama and the Democrats effectively saved capitalism from itself; a more radical leadership would fight to replace it with a better system. This time around there may be far more pressure from below to do just that, especially with a more organized left and more class conscious young people. As a former soviet occupied country citizen, I am amazed that westerners would want to ove…

In the US, things like fair tax codes, universal access to affordable healthcare, and affordable universities are considered "socialism".

The "not capitalism" of the soviet bloc is not even close to what the article is disucssing

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