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New Study Documents Depleted Uranium Impacts on Children in Iraq

ahtribune.com

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Re: New Study Documents Depleted Uranium Impacts on Children in Iraq

#11

Post by dmix »

dev_dull wrote: post #10
infinitone wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Regardless why isn’t there a growing movement to call the perpetrators of this war criminals? You're kidding right? Before the US invasion, the largest protests in the world happened all over the world against it and it didn't do anything. > Social movement researchers have described the 15 February protest as "the largest protest event in human history" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15_February_2003_anti-war_prot.…

Thankfully the war in Iraq was the last time our intelligence agencies mislead the public.

It's fascinating to reread just how bad these stories were:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger_uranium_forgeries

> In March 2003 [..] it reportedly took International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) officials only a matter of hours to determine that these documents were fake. IAEA experts discovered indications of a crude forgery, such as the use of incorrect names of Nigerien officials.

The CIA and foreign intelligence services did do some good work to try to correct that particular false narrative - something originally spread from Iran's intel service no less (which sounds a lot like the discredited 2016 'dossier' which came from questionable Russian sources). But they clearly didn't do enough. Probably because they were on the brink of getting new massive sweeping powers.

This one's my favourite CIA story from that era, just straight-up blatant disregard for the law with zero repercussions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_CIA_interrogation_videota...

Re: New Study Documents Depleted Uranium Impacts on Children in Iraq

#12

Post by ip26 »

josho wrote: post #6

With a “half-life of 4.5 billion years” does that mean these areas are going to be permanent toxic waste lands? Regardless why isn’t there a growing movement to call the perpetrators of this war criminals?

If the half-life is that long, exposure to direct environmental radiation is probably not that big of a concern- the sieverts will be very low- and the main harm comes through ingesting, inhaling, etc. I would wonder if things like dust abatement, water filtration, and food washing would be used to manage the issue in the future.

As a point of comparison, regular U-238 is present at low levels all over the place in Colorado, it's naturally in the rock & soil. As long as the amounts are low, the radiation is low, and it mostly stays put, it's not a big problem.

Re: New Study Documents Depleted Uranium Impacts on Children in Iraq

#13

Post by netsharc »

josho wrote: post #6

With a “half-life of 4.5 billion years” does that mean these areas are going to be permanent toxic waste lands? Regardless why isn’t there a growing movement to call the perpetrators of this war criminals?

Probably because Obama said we have to look forwards and not backwards, and Europe was probably in love with him that they just said "ok!", and Russia and China were thinking "that's fine with us because it means we'll get away with doing similar things!"

Obama seemed to have the dream of stopping the partisan bickering and reuniting the country, prosecuting the former presidential administration would not have helped with that (not that this dream/mission got anywhere close to reality in his 8 years).

Another reason was prosecuting them would've meant subsequent administrations would look for any wrongdoing they could use against the previous admin. (Well, this is what the GOP did anyway, say with Benghazi).

Re: New Study Documents Depleted Uranium Impacts on Children in Iraq

#14

Post by bouncycastle »

dev_dull wrote: post #10
infinitone wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Regardless why isn’t there a growing movement to call the perpetrators of this war criminals? You're kidding right? Before the US invasion, the largest protests in the world happened all over the world against it and it didn't do anything. > Social movement researchers have described the 15 February protest as "the largest protest event in human history" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15_February_2003_anti-war_prot.…

Thankfully the war in Iraq was the last time our intelligence agencies mislead the public.

Unlikely. With today's social media, AI boom, deep fakes, and ever increasing processing power, they can do their PSYOPs even better.

Re: New Study Documents Depleted Uranium Impacts on Children in Iraq

#15

Post by tsimionescu »

netsharc wrote: post #13
josho wrote: post #6

With a “half-life of 4.5 billion years” does that mean these areas are going to be permanent toxic waste lands? Regardless why isn’t there a growing movement to call the perpetrators of this war criminals?

Probably because Obama said we have to look forwards and not backwards, and Europe was probably in love with him that they just said "ok!", and Russia and China were thinking "that's fine with us because it means we'll get away with doing similar things!" Obama seemed to have the dream of stopping the partisan bickering and reuniting the country, prosecuting the former presidential administration would not have helpe…

As far as I know, the US have never investigated a member of their government for war crimes, and have always shielded any US army person investigated in another country. It is a very simple policy: by definition, the US is carying out just wars, so there can be no war crimes perpetrated by the US army. At most, regrettable mistakes can be admitted to.

This applies even when international courts have found the US guilty, since the US does not recognize the authority of international courts against them. See the case of the mining of Nicaragua's harbors https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua_v._United_States

Re: New Study Documents Depleted Uranium Impacts on Children in Iraq

#17

Post by saagarjha »

bouncycastle wrote: post #14
dev_dull wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully the war in Iraq was the last time our intelligence agencies mislead the public.

Unlikely. With today's social media, AI boom, deep fakes, and ever increasing processing power, they can do their PSYOPs even better.

I'm sure the comment was an attempt at sarcasm.

Re: New Study Documents Depleted Uranium Impacts on Children in Iraq

#18

Post by saagarjha »

birdyrooster wrote: post #7
DoctorOetker wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

when you say "lead bullets" do you mean gun bullets, or armor piercing bullets / projectiles? a normal bullet does not vaporize and contaminate the whole area in the same way vaporizing projectiles do...

Depleted Uranium is not designed to vaporize. It has a boiling point (3818°C) more than twice that of lead (1740°C). It's atomic mass of 238 is considerably higher than Lead's 207.5. It packs quite the punch when put into a slug, but does not reach temperatures where it could vaporize. Certainly particulate matter would be ejected from the impact, though as with most slugs. That said, what was done here is despicable…

> It's atomic mass of 238 is considerably higher than Lead's 207.5.

Atomic mass has little to do with an element's boiling point.

Re: New Study Documents Depleted Uranium Impacts on Children in Iraq

#19

Post by astrodust »

birdyrooster wrote: post #7
DoctorOetker wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

when you say "lead bullets" do you mean gun bullets, or armor piercing bullets / projectiles? a normal bullet does not vaporize and contaminate the whole area in the same way vaporizing projectiles do...

Depleted Uranium is not designed to vaporize. It has a boiling point (3818°C) more than twice that of lead (1740°C). It's atomic mass of 238 is considerably higher than Lead's 207.5. It packs quite the punch when put into a slug, but does not reach temperatures where it could vaporize. Certainly particulate matter would be ejected from the impact, though as with most slugs. That said, what was done here is despicable…

The DU projectiles are intended to fragment in ways that lead does not, as on impact parts of the projectile shear away and it "self-sharpens" when penetrating.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn4004-safe-alternative...

The energy involved is also more than sufficient to hit that temperature. When a high-velocity shell impacts something it will deform and convert a lot of the kinetic energy to thermal.

The whole thing doesn't melt, but parts of it do, and the vehicle it hits gets absolutely thrashed.

These things cut through pretty much any armor like it's not even there. During the Iraq war they'd even hit tanks by firing through the tops of sand dunes, aiming using thermal imaging.

Re: New Study Documents Depleted Uranium Impacts on Children in Iraq

#20

Post by roenxi »

I don't like articles this blatantly manipulative; it is an unfortunate character flaw if anyone thinks the most important part of a military invasion are photos of 10s of mutated children.

This particular instance is horrible but also unimportant. The US killed literally thousands of civilians when they invaded in 2003. There is a long, long list of worse things that the US military has done; even ignoring anything prior to the Iraq invasion in 2003.

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