The repetitional damage to Boeing on this has to be considerable.
Boeing 2016 internal messages suggest employees may have misled FAA on 737 MAX
11–20 of 74 posts
Re: Boeing 2016 internal messages suggest employees may have misled FAA on 737 MAX
#12>The pilot, Mark Forkner, complained that the system, known as MCAS, was causing him trouble. “It’s running rampant in the sim,” he said in a message to a colleague, referring to the simulator. "Granted, I suck at flying, but even this was egregious,” he went on to say, according to a transcript of the exchange reviewed by The New York Times. People need to go to prison over this.
Prison: our solution to every problem.
IDK, it's overused in the US, but a lot of people died too and that's... pretty bad?
Re: Boeing 2016 internal messages suggest employees may have misled FAA on 737 MAX
#13Earlier quoted context omitted.
Boeing has designed planes that have an INCREDIBLE safety record, particularly when flying in US regulated airspace. Interesting that prison time is demanded here when a much more simple explanation is that this was an oversight by the pilots in the sim who didn't fully understand the issue was MCAS related. Millions killed from opioid epidemics, thousands killed from violence and various preventable diseases, huge n…
So you want to use their historical record as some kind of justification for their dismal record with the 737 MAX, as if one is related to the other? Cold comfort to the 300+ lives, and families destroyed. Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2tuKiiznsY This isn't just some "oops, these were badly trained pilots" – the whole premise of MCAS is seriously screwed up and smacks of non-engineers running the…
Sometimes a place can fall apart from the inside, knowledge rot eating away at a engineering culture, like termites at a house. In the end, its all still there- but not reliable.
MCAS is ducttape. Ducttape applied, because the whole culture is by now incentivize screwed, pennywise optimizing instead of pound problem solving. A "carry on" is actually the hostile action in this situation. Sidenote: I like that you can not lie in modern society, because all data has copies and copies of copies.
Re: Boeing 2016 internal messages suggest employees may have misled FAA on 737 MAX
#14>The pilot, Mark Forkner, complained that the system, known as MCAS, was causing him trouble. “It’s running rampant in the sim,” he said in a message to a colleague, referring to the simulator. "Granted, I suck at flying, but even this was egregious,” he went on to say, according to a transcript of the exchange reviewed by The New York Times. People need to go to prison over this.
I'm not sure if the link originally pointed to NYT, but the currently linked reuters report adds a bit more context to the messages. >Forkner said in one text message, “I basically lied to the regulators (unknowingly).” The other employee responded that “it wasn’t a lie, no one told us that was the case” of an issue with MCAS. >Forkner responded soon after: “Granted I suck at flying, but even this was egregious.”
I don’t really understand the context of these messages.
The one about MCAS running rampant is clear enough but what does he mean saying that he sucks at flying? What is egregious?
Re: Boeing 2016 internal messages suggest employees may have misled FAA on 737 MAX
#15What’s the implication here? That it’s these pilot’s fault? Surely their job is just to report what they experience during a flight sim and it’s someone else who would have decided to hide that.
Re: Boeing 2016 internal messages suggest employees may have misled FAA on 737 MAX
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
Boeing has designed planes that have an INCREDIBLE safety record, particularly when flying in US regulated airspace. Interesting that prison time is demanded here when a much more simple explanation is that this was an oversight by the pilots in the sim who didn't fully understand the issue was MCAS related. Millions killed from opioid epidemics, thousands killed from violence and various preventable diseases, huge n…
So you want to use their historical record as some kind of justification for their dismal record with the 737 MAX, as if one is related to the other? Cold comfort to the 300+ lives, and families destroyed. Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2tuKiiznsY This isn't just some "oops, these were badly trained pilots" – the whole premise of MCAS is seriously screwed up and smacks of non-engineers running the…
What op seems to imply is that airplane incidents rates actually have a stronger track record as opposed to the opioid epidemic, road fatality, etc. And that if society believes that this individual/group should go to prison based on this mistake and in hindsight, without account for all the other factors that were a part of the decision making process, then society should start reconsidering the way it treats opioid, road fatality, etc.
The mindset of "quick to imprison" can also run the risk of creating a society that is overly averse to risk taking, which can hinder technology and scientific advances. For example, it may take 10 times as long to get a new, more advanced traffic light implemented in your city because now everyone wants to make sure no stone was left unturned, otherwise someone will get into an accident and a staff/group will be imprisoned. Or a new software is implemented but 3 months later it is found that failure under very specific scenarios has caused over 50 deaths. There are millions of potential scenarios that may fall under similar conditions as exemplified above.
Please note that this writing is not advocating for or against either views, it is simply shedding light on risks that should be considered.
Re: Boeing 2016 internal messages suggest employees may have misled FAA on 737 MAX
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure if the link originally pointed to NYT, but the currently linked reuters report adds a bit more context to the messages. >Forkner said in one text message, “I basically lied to the regulators (unknowingly).” The other employee responded that “it wasn’t a lie, no one told us that was the case” of an issue with MCAS. >Forkner responded soon after: “Granted I suck at flying, but even this was egregious.”
I don’t really understand the context of these messages. The one about MCAS running rampant is clear enough but what does he mean saying that he sucks at flying? What is egregious?
I interpreted that as “I may be a bad pilot but MCAS made my trying to fly in the simulators particularly unsuccessful”
Re: Boeing 2016 internal messages suggest employees may have misled FAA on 737 MAX
#18>The pilot, Mark Forkner, complained that the system, known as MCAS, was causing him trouble. “It’s running rampant in the sim,” he said in a message to a colleague, referring to the simulator. "Granted, I suck at flying, but even this was egregious,” he went on to say, according to a transcript of the exchange reviewed by The New York Times. People need to go to prison over this.
Prison: our solution to every problem.
I'm normally against prison as a deterrent because it is used against people where it wouldn't work as a deterrent. In cases such as these it might actually work if the execs of such companies were simply jailed for a very long time as though they were about equally responsible as a regular bus driver would be if they were negligent at their job and killed a bunch of people. It just might have a positive effect the next time someone thinks they might get away with cutting some corners.
Re: Boeing 2016 internal messages suggest employees may have misled FAA on 737 MAX
#19>The pilot, Mark Forkner, complained that the system, known as MCAS, was causing him trouble. “It’s running rampant in the sim,” he said in a message to a colleague, referring to the simulator. "Granted, I suck at flying, but even this was egregious,” he went on to say, according to a transcript of the exchange reviewed by The New York Times. People need to go to prison over this.
I'd LOL if it's just the pilot who gets the boot (to prison).
Re: Boeing 2016 internal messages suggest employees may have misled FAA on 737 MAX
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
Prison: our solution to every problem.
IDK, it's overused in the US, but a lot of people died too and that's... pretty bad?
Sometimes people die and there is no one to blame. The tendency to find a scapegoat is strong and human and needs to be resisted.
Maybe someone should go to jail here, but I doubt it.