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On the way to being the most downvoted post ever on StackOverflow:Meta

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Re: On the way to being the most downvoted post ever on StackOverflow:Meta

#11

Post by wetpaws »

callinyouin wrote: post #7
CM30 wrote: post #2

Now it seems StackOverflow knows how YouTube feels whenever they post a YouTube Rewind video. That one got absolutely downvoted to all hell, and for similar reasons to this post. Hopefully they'll look at this, see the amount of dislikes it's getting and change course again/revert this mess to the way it was before.

This "mess" is an attempt to encourage/enforce basic decency in their community. Why do you think they should "change course"?

Because using good causes for justifying bad actions is bad.

Re: On the way to being the most downvoted post ever on StackOverflow:Meta

#12

Post by urthen »

RankingMember wrote: post #5

I think the blowback is really just about cognitive load. There's only so much you can expend on social mores before the actual subject you're discussing gets eclipsed. Everyone deserves equal respect, but I understand that when I'm not in the majority in a situation that my perspectives/language may be alien to some of those in the majority- I don't hold it against them unless there is explicit hostility. I find mys…

Absolutely "They". They they they they they. English already has a perfectly good gender-neutral pronoun. I explicitly list my pronouns as "He/his or they/their" because I think the neopronouns are ultimately a way to gatekeep inclusivity, which is ironic.

Re: On the way to being the most downvoted post ever on StackOverflow:Meta

#13

Post by notadoc »

urthen wrote: post #12
RankingMember wrote: post #5

I think the blowback is really just about cognitive load. There's only so much you can expend on social mores before the actual subject you're discussing gets eclipsed. Everyone deserves equal respect, but I understand that when I'm not in the majority in a situation that my perspectives/language may be alien to some of those in the majority- I don't hold it against them unless there is explicit hostility. I find mys…

Absolutely "They". They they they they they. English already has a perfectly good gender-neutral pronoun. I explicitly list my pronouns as "He/his or they/their" because I think the neopronouns are ultimately a way to gatekeep inclusivity, which is ironic.

What will happen with grammatically gendered languages, like Spanish?

Re: On the way to being the most downvoted post ever on StackOverflow:Meta

#14

Post by crimsonalucard »

RankingMember wrote: post #5

I think the blowback is really just about cognitive load. There's only so much you can expend on social mores before the actual subject you're discussing gets eclipsed. Everyone deserves equal respect, but I understand that when I'm not in the majority in a situation that my perspectives/language may be alien to some of those in the majority- I don't hold it against them unless there is explicit hostility. I find mys…

I highly disagree. It isn't about cognitive overload. It is about sexism. People aren't gender neutral and don't want to be referred to by an offensive gender neutral pronoun when their gender is anything but gender neutral. It is absurd and insensitive to refer to things as neutral when they have a gender

For example my gender is zygort bilop and the pronoun is zula. Referring to me as gender neutral is the ultimate offense. I mean you don't go around calling African Americans the n-word right? It's the same thing when you call me a "he," "she" or "it."

Re: On the way to being the most downvoted post ever on StackOverflow:Meta

#15

Post by Spivak »

dlivingston wrote: post #8
fwip wrote: post #4

Wow, what a trainwreck in the comments. It's a shame that this is what happens whenever you remind developers to use common decency.

The majority of comments have no qualms with respecting one's mode of self-identification, but rather, with the method by which S.E. has chosen to approach it. In other words, the commenters have an issue with the poor execution of a noble idea .

Genuinely, what's the poor execution? They seem to have basically codified "use someone's stated pronouns" with an awareness of the common ways people try to get around it.

It seems like anyone who respects how other people identify will have hard time running up against this policy.

Re: On the way to being the most downvoted post ever on StackOverflow:Meta

#16

Post by peterangular »

If it's that much of a concern just put a validation filter on the comment submission box that has you "gender neutralize" your submission/answers if they find "he/her" type language in there.

I mean - it's a clear-enough defined problem to solve with software and I've found that if you mess up a gender pronoun on accident people sometimes get deeply offended. I've gone 100% to the "they/them/you/their user name/etc." route because I just don't want to step on toes.

I miss the days when everyone was just a silly textual username that didn't have a gender, age, religion, race, etc. I've gone years communicating with people without actually knowing their gender.

Re: On the way to being the most downvoted post ever on StackOverflow:Meta

#17

Post by atonse »

Obligatory need to say: I strongly believe in a live-and-let-live idea so yes, everyone should be treated fairly and with decency. Everyone.

The odd thing here is that in most cases, rules regarding speech revolve around what _not_ to say. (cursing, hate speech, attacks, etc).

But in this case, these kinds of things feel like they belong more as a list of good manners. But in this case, you aren't being told "this is what we feel are good manners", but you're forced to say certain things, but those rules can be all over the place (physically, on different pages, and complexity-wise). So now are people supposed to check each profile before responding? What's wrong with just saying s/he, or OP, or the various internet-isms? Do they cause so much harm? They are totally harmless and neutral, and not offensive. Or are they offensive now?

Again, it's one thing if it was a guideline (like when we talk about manners), but this seems like users are being forced to say certain words (compelled speech), knowing which words to say requires them to do additional research, and that research usually has nothing to do with the content of the actual post.

Re: On the way to being the most downvoted post ever on StackOverflow:Meta

#19

Post by gwbas1c »

notadoc wrote: post #13
urthen wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely "They". They they they they they. English already has a perfectly good gender-neutral pronoun. I explicitly list my pronouns as "He/his or they/their" because I think the neopronouns are ultimately a way to gatekeep inclusivity, which is ironic.

What will happen with grammatically gendered languages, like Spanish?

Then you need to go look up how it's handled in Spanish.

BTW, English is gendered, just not as much as Spanish, French, and Italian are.

Re: On the way to being the most downvoted post ever on StackOverflow:Meta

#20

Post by zzzcpan »

callinyouin wrote: post #7
CM30 wrote: post #2

Now it seems StackOverflow knows how YouTube feels whenever they post a YouTube Rewind video. That one got absolutely downvoted to all hell, and for similar reasons to this post. Hopefully they'll look at this, see the amount of dislikes it's getting and change course again/revert this mess to the way it was before.

This "mess" is an attempt to encourage/enforce basic decency in their community. Why do you think they should "change course"?

"Decency" is not a universal thing, so it's not acceptable to enforce your ways of being decent onto everyone else.
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