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What If Algorithms Could Be Fair?

humanreadablemag.com

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Re: What If Algorithms Could Be Fair?

#11
post #2

I'm not sure I follow their car crash diagram and explanation. They've laid out that one ethnicity might prefer red cars more than others, and drivers of red cars tend to get into more crashes, and that training ML with "red cars" as a feature would lead to a bias against that ethnicity. I got that part. What I don't get is how the creation of the "risky behavior" node can be assumed to have a completely uniform dist…

> What I don't get is how the creation of the "risky behavior" node can be assumed to have a completely uniform distribution of ethnicities inside of it.

It's a much broader problem than that, because the direction of causation can be extraordinarily difficult to establish in general.

Changing the color of your car shouldn't change your ethnicity, but what if it does? Suppose you're white with Spanish ancestry and Hispanics are the group who like red cars. Paint your car red and some red-car-preferring Hispanics may be more inclined to associate with you and thereby cause you to be more immersed in Hispanic culture and start to identify as Hispanic rather than white.

And that's a silly one just to show that even the exemplar could be wrong. More plausibly, what if the causation between "risky behavior" and "red car" is reversed? We know that colors can affect human behavior. If getting into a red car makes you drive more aggressively then you have a direct causal chain between being more likely to buy a red car (for any reason) and being more likely to drive aggressively and get into a car crash.

That means that in order to use this you would first need to prove the direction of causation between the two behaviors. But that's a tall hill to climb when one of the factors you're trying to prove causation with is the one you don't have good data on.

There is also a straight forward way to tell when a method like this is definitely getting the math wrong -- does it make the prediction rate for that class of people worse? If your assumptions are correct then it shouldn't, so if it does then you've unambiguously failed.

Re: What If Algorithms Could Be Fair?

#12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, it seems very plausible that car culture differs in different cultures. Is it truly unreasonable to suggest that perhaps more than an average number of Italians are fast aggressive drivers? From what I've heard and seen, it's anecdotally true. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of it being a statistically true. And every time I express my desire for autobahns without speed restrictions to crisscross North Ame…

If more than an average number of Italians are fast drivers, it doesn't mean being Italian causes being a fast driver. Is the idea that correlation is not causation in this context really breaking everybody's brain? Now you may argue that correlation reflects causation in a particular case, sure, but in general , it is not the same, so it seems perfectly logical to me to point out that you can start building your mod…

Is it so hard for you to believe there might plausibly be a causation?

Consider the case of African Americans who are discriminated against by traffic cops. Is it plausible that African Americans, in an attempt [perhaps in vain] to minimize interaction with traffic cops, are more cognizant of traffic laws and drive more conservatively than the average American? I don't know if the data supports that hypothetical, but it seems plausible to me.

Assuming that this were the case, if you were to assume that African Americans drove as well as white Americans, you would be discriminating against the African American population by failing to recognize their safer driving habits.

Re: What If Algorithms Could Be Fair?

#13
post #6
post #2

I'm not sure I follow their car crash diagram and explanation. They've laid out that one ethnicity might prefer red cars more than others, and drivers of red cars tend to get into more crashes, and that training ML with "red cars" as a feature would lead to a bias against that ethnicity. I got that part. What I don't get is how the creation of the "risky behavior" node can be assumed to have a completely uniform dist…

There is a strong push for "fairness", see e.g. "Toronto Declaration". I think all it would do is completely halt progress of AI and install bureaucracy to the lowest decision levels, paralyzing whole ML research. Nobody seems to think that we are in a clash of different cultures with different sensitivities and there is no single common platform for stating what is "fair". I am worried the loudest voice would set th…

> there is no single common platform for stating what is "fair".

This is the crux of the issue and as always, most people seem to miss it. Often “fair” is used as shorthand for “does what I think is right”.

Re: What If Algorithms Could Be Fair?

#14
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a strong push for "fairness", see e.g. "Toronto Declaration". I think all it would do is completely halt progress of AI and install bureaucracy to the lowest decision levels, paralyzing whole ML research. Nobody seems to think that we are in a clash of different cultures with different sensitivities and there is no single common platform for stating what is "fair". I am worried the loudest voice would set th…

"forbidding this type of inference" Isn't this just a misleading way to say "holding a certain causal belief"? Why exactly would that be a bad thing? If you reject one set of causal beliefs, you necessarily hold a different set.

Some beliefs are correlated with reality, others don't. If GP's assertion about 34% more drinking on average is true, then rejecting it isn't "holding a different set of beliefs", it's just being wrong.

If there's an issue worth pursuing here, it's educating people to stop using average population statistics to rate individuals from populations. Usually the variance within a population makes population-level statistics useless for evaluating individuals.

Re: What If Algorithms Could Be Fair?

#15

If the algorithm charges higher car insurances premium to men, does it mean it is fair?

I think the whole point is that what causal relationships you assume matter, and they do not have to be derived from correlations. And they should not, in order to be "fair". You have a choice of whether or not you believe being male causes car insurance claims. That is independent of the statistical correlations. Ten times a day people say correlation is not causation, but a hundred times a day, I see people implici…

It's not that people think correlation implies causation, as much as in many practical models, it's correlations you care about, not causation.

If I'm running an insurance agency and not a public policy advocacy, and my data keeps showing that men have higher accident rate than women, I can just ignore causation and build my actuarial tables based on that. I don't need a casual model here, at least not until the point I'd want to optimize my models further still, but there are diminishing returns on that.

Re: What If Algorithms Could Be Fair?

#16
post #6
post #2

I'm not sure I follow their car crash diagram and explanation. They've laid out that one ethnicity might prefer red cars more than others, and drivers of red cars tend to get into more crashes, and that training ML with "red cars" as a feature would lead to a bias against that ethnicity. I got that part. What I don't get is how the creation of the "risky behavior" node can be assumed to have a completely uniform dist…

There is a strong push for "fairness", see e.g. "Toronto Declaration". I think all it would do is completely halt progress of AI and install bureaucracy to the lowest decision levels, paralyzing whole ML research. Nobody seems to think that we are in a clash of different cultures with different sensitivities and there is no single common platform for stating what is "fair". I am worried the loudest voice would set th…

> There is a strong push for "fairness", see e.g. "Toronto Declaration". I think all it would do is completely halt progress of AI and install bureaucracy to the lowest decision levels, paralyzing whole ML research.

It would only paralyze those who paid attention to the Toronto Declaration. You’re right because you can’t make ML fair because the universe isn’t fair, that’s a property of human judgements about facts. The facts remain the same regardless of ones feelings.

https://www.chrisstucchio.com/pubs/slides/crunchconf_2018/sl...

AI Ethics, Impossibility Theorems and Tradeoffs

Re: What If Algorithms Could Be Fair?

#17

If the algorithm charges higher car insurances premium to men, does it mean it is fair?

In a world where most engineers just click through EULAs; don't bother to read the source code of the library they just imported; don't measure the performance of their application before it is deployed; don't run tests after installation; don't author tests; don't test their assumptions, etc. etc., it stands to reason that if an algorithm charges higher car insurance premiums, it may be for totally bullshit reasons totally obscured by some jagoff's "ML" code.

The reason fairness has so much headway among engineers isn't just an aversion towards discrimination among educated people. It's that we all know this stuff is way jankier than we care to ever admit, and that we'd never want to be the data sausage going through the algorithm grinder.

Re: What If Algorithms Could Be Fair?

#18
Algorithms are based on statistics, or essentially stereotypes. The concept of fairness is something that can’t be adequately injected into an algorithm because it completely depends on what “fair” means and how that changes over time. What is “fair” now won’t be fair in 10 years.

It used to be considered fair to let people smoke when they wanted. Then it was considered fair to have smoking sections and non—smoking sections in restaurants. Now it’s considered fair to ban smoking entirely in restaurants and most public places.

Re: What If Algorithms Could Be Fair?

#19
Facebook developed it's "Look Alike" platform, to advertise things to people who "looked like" their current followers. Then they deployed this to hiring, home loans, and housing. The "algorithm" here just amplified whatever biases the company had to begin with. It's pretty unbelievable that Facebook did not recognize this was a problem until they were sued over it.

Making a system fair at the very least requires people designing the system to be fair. It's pretty clear that still does not happen, so I'm pretty skeptical of those that claim it's just around the corner.

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