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How bullying may shape adolescent brains

qz.com

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Re: How bullying may shape adolescent brains

#11

Post by codegladiator »

devoply wrote: post #7
codegladiator wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bullies themselves need counselling on managing their own needs and emotions rather than punishment So, criminals also, by that logic, themselves need counseling on managing their own needs and emotions rather than punishment ?

Maybe if you counselled them and taught them how to manage their own needs and emotions many of them would not become criminals saving society many ills. You can not eliminate the personality that needs bullying to validate themselves from the population. You can however hep them channel those needs into other things like entrepreneurship and leadership. To productively shape their needs for power over people rather…

This suggests that the bully/criminal didn't already knew that. Most bullies i have seen didn't become bully because of some trauma.... its just fun to dominate (not even validation IMO).

Re: How bullying may shape adolescent brains

#12

Post by Juliate »

luckylion wrote: post #4
devoply wrote: post #2

Bullies themselves need counselling on managing their own needs and emotions rather than punishment. We focus so much on the victims, we also need to focus on the perpetrators and see them as victims as well if not of anything else than their own psychology.

Let's focus on the actual victims first though, and stop the bullies. There is a meta-argument with regards to free will and whether and how much choice we have in the things we do, but that's a very different discussion (albeit an interesting one) and shouldn't be confused with the one about the bully's acts and immediate (and long term) results.

Taking care of the victims today does not exclude taking care of the bullies as well.

Stopping them does not mean only punishment, but counselling (and sometimes, because they were themselves victims of abuses).

Re: How bullying may shape adolescent brains

#13

Post by devoply »

ryannevius wrote: post #10
devoply wrote: post #2

Bullies themselves need counselling on managing their own needs and emotions rather than punishment. We focus so much on the victims, we also need to focus on the perpetrators and see them as victims as well if not of anything else than their own psychology.

> Bullies themselves need counselling on managing their own needs and emotions rather than punishment I'd replace "rather than" with "in addition to".

You really want to make a must to punish children? If you get in there early there shouldn't be an in addition to.

Prison is a final measure when all other measures have failed. Even with prison, first time offenders of non-serious crimes usually do not do time or are diverted to other programs to help them avoid this fate. I just love how all the nerds here are going crazy over letting bullies off the hook initially to try to reform them -- it's as if they all want to bully the bullies.

Re: How bullying may shape adolescent brains

#14

Post by codegladiator »

devoply wrote: post #9
Juliate wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, yes, they do. You want this, especially when you know they will one day get out of jail.

Not only that, they will have wives, girlfriends, and children; they may eventually have employees. You can not stop them period. They are a part of the human population. They can not be weeded out.

Bullies bully when they know they can get away with it (so does criminals). I just fail to follow your narrative.

I would alternatively suggest to make the punishment severe and make sure bullies can't get away with it.

Re: How bullying may shape adolescent brains

#15

Post by Juliate »

codegladiator wrote: post #11
devoply wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if you counselled them and taught them how to manage their own needs and emotions many of them would not become criminals saving society many ills. You can not eliminate the personality that needs bullying to validate themselves from the population. You can however hep them channel those needs into other things like entrepreneurship and leadership. To productively shape their needs for power over people rather…

This suggests that the bully/criminal didn't already knew that. Most bullies i have seen didn't become bully because of some trauma.... its just fun to dominate (not even validation IMO).

Most of the destructive/negative emotions and behaviours someone exhibits, comes from a lack of self-awareness.

Re: How bullying may shape adolescent brains

#16

Post by tiew9Vii »

codegladiator wrote: post #6
devoply wrote: post #2

Bullies themselves need counselling on managing their own needs and emotions rather than punishment. We focus so much on the victims, we also need to focus on the perpetrators and see them as victims as well if not of anything else than their own psychology.

> Bullies themselves need counselling on managing their own needs and emotions rather than punishment So, criminals also, by that logic, themselves need counseling on managing their own needs and emotions rather than punishment ?

Yes, exactly that, everything I read says rehabilitating prisoners greatly reduces re-offending.

That’s not to say they shouldn’t go to prison for a crime. While in prison it shouldn’t be just a punishment, the isolation is the punishment, the idea should be providing the help needed inside so when they come out they do not re-offend.

Re: How bullying may shape adolescent brains

#18

Post by yetihehe »

codegladiator wrote: post #11
devoply wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if you counselled them and taught them how to manage their own needs and emotions many of them would not become criminals saving society many ills. You can not eliminate the personality that needs bullying to validate themselves from the population. You can however hep them channel those needs into other things like entrepreneurship and leadership. To productively shape their needs for power over people rather…

This suggests that the bully/criminal didn't already knew that. Most bullies i have seen didn't become bully because of some trauma.... its just fun to dominate (not even validation IMO).

Anegdotically, I know one bully from high school, who was trying to bully even me in college first year, but he changed, was a good friend and managed to get award for best results from education minister. So not all bullies are bulies for fun. All it took was a change of surroundings (he and two his friends were from "bad" primary school, all of them changed).

Re: How bullying may shape adolescent brains

#19

Post by traderjane »

devoply wrote: post #2

Bullies themselves need counselling on managing their own needs and emotions rather than punishment. We focus so much on the victims, we also need to focus on the perpetrators and see them as victims as well if not of anything else than their own psychology.

Western bullying literature suggests that bullying is more like a position that people step in and out of, whereas victimhood is sticky to the individual. It’s easier to predict victims than bullies, and it’s difficult to predict how long someone will remain in the bully position.

Bullying predicts general protective effects on the individual and social well-being. It also predicts that peers will rate the bully well, even when the victim rates the bully. This is to say that bullying has a big bystander component (the public reviews the act), and that bullies may do better than the normal population.

People who are both bullies and victims experience characteristics from both populations.

Re: How bullying may shape adolescent brains

#20

Post by pdpi »

codegladiator wrote: post #14
devoply wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, they will have wives, girlfriends, and children; they may eventually have employees. You can not stop them period. They are a part of the human population. They can not be weeded out.

Bullies bully when they know they can get away with it (so does criminals). I just fail to follow your narrative. I would alternatively suggest to make the punishment severe and make sure bullies can't get away with it.

The question you're not asking is "why are people engaging in these behaviours?"

You don't have to deter people from engaging in bad behaviour if those people don't feel motivated to engage in those behaviours in the first place.

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