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Turning Over: Why page turners matter

van-us.atavist.com

11–20 of 28 posts

Re: Turning Over: Why page turners matter

#11
post #6

Genuinly curious: why is this still a thing? How difficult could it be to throw together some screen, microphone and ML algorithm that would turn the pages (or roll then up) at appropriate time?

You don't even need the microphone or ML. You just need two foot pedals - one to move forward, and one to move back.

Re: Turning Over: Why page turners matter

#13
post #6

Genuinly curious: why is this still a thing? How difficult could it be to throw together some screen, microphone and ML algorithm that would turn the pages (or roll then up) at appropriate time?

You don't even need the microphone or ML. You just need two foot pedals - one to move forward, and one to move back.

The problem is that some instruments have pedals too (e.g. the piano).

Re: Turning Over: Why page turners matter

#14
post #6

Genuinly curious: why is this still a thing? How difficult could it be to throw together some screen, microphone and ML algorithm that would turn the pages (or roll then up) at appropriate time?

Aside from the technical challenges of this, I think that it's not exactly in the spirit of classical performance, which often is as much about the incredible skill and attention-to-detail of the people on stage as it is about the sound of the music itself. So, I imagine many skilled pianists would still prefer a human page turner over such a device, even if it did exist and functioned perfectly.

But I think a fair question is: why are these performers even using sheet music? Imagine going to a pop concert and [insert favorite artist] was reading sheet music while dancing on stage. Shouldn't the music be in "muscle memory", even for classical performers? Wouldn't that open up more opportunities for contact between the performer and audience?

Re: Turning Over: Why page turners matter

#15
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't even need the microphone or ML. You just need two foot pedals - one to move forward, and one to move back.

The problem is that some instruments have pedals too (e.g. the piano).

Right, but I can't think of very many situations where you're using both feet on a piano (in fact, I don't know if that's even mechanically possible). So that leaves at least one foot.

Organists would have to figure out some other strategy, though, since they do use both feet frequently. Still, if there's a button to push somewhere on the organ, that'd be at least easier than flipping a physical page.

Re: Turning Over: Why page turners matter

#16
post #8
post #6

Genuinly curious: why is this still a thing? How difficult could it be to throw together some screen, microphone and ML algorithm that would turn the pages (or roll then up) at appropriate time?

Why do you think that a software solution to this requires ML?

Recognizing audio as it's played and relating to written music from audio input?

Re: Turning Over: Why page turners matter

#17
post #6

Genuinly curious: why is this still a thing? How difficult could it be to throw together some screen, microphone and ML algorithm that would turn the pages (or roll then up) at appropriate time?

I've only seen something like this once: Daniel Hope playing Gabriel Prokoviev's violin concerto.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=985lfzTs79Q

I don't know what software he uses or how the pages get turned (by the time spent?).

Re: Turning Over: Why page turners matter

#18
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that some instruments have pedals too (e.g. the piano).

Right, but I can't think of very many situations where you're using both feet on a piano (in fact, I don't know if that's even mechanically possible). So that leaves at least one foot. Organists would have to figure out some other strategy, though, since they do use both feet frequently. Still, if there's a button to push somewhere on the organ, that'd be at least easier than flipping a physical page.

Yes it's very much mechanically possible to use 2 pedals on the piano at the same time; it's not actually that uncommon.

For organists, these days pipe organs are usually outfit with a sequencer that allows the organist to program a list of registration changes (the combination of pipes/stops used) ahead of time; the organist then advances through the sequence of registrations, by bumping a bumper pedal with the side of their foot, or by pushing a toe stud pedal. Sometimes there are multiple toe stud pedals, which either allow for jumping straight to a specific combination, or for using the closest one as the program advance.

Re: Turning Over: Why page turners matter

#19
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think that a software solution to this requires ML?

Recognizing audio as it's played and relating to written music from audio input?

Assuming that the musician or conductor doesn't get too creative, a lock-in amplifier coupled with a FFT should be enough to do the trick. (To put it in perspective, unless the orchestra is playing in a noisy bar, the sound of the piece should dominate from the device's perspective.)

Re: Turning Over: Why page turners matter

#20
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from the technical challenges of this, I think that it's not exactly in the spirit of classical performance, which often is as much about the incredible skill and attention-to-detail of the people on stage as it is about the sound of the music itself. So, I imagine many skilled pianists would still prefer a human page turner over such a device, even if it did exist and functioned perfectly.

But I think a fair question is: why are these performers even using sheet music? Imagine going to a pop concert and [insert favorite artist] was reading sheet music while dancing on stage. Shouldn't the music be in "muscle memory", even for classical performers? Wouldn't that open up more opportunities for contact between the performer and audience?

Classical music is drastically more complex. There’s orders of magnitude more stuff to remember.
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