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Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome'

abc.net.au

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Re: Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome'

#11

Post by tomohawk »

devoply wrote: post #8
golergka wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you really lack perspective on what any warfare is: it's always critical, life or death decisions that have to be taken without sufficient information. US civilian to combatant casualty ratio in the recent conflicts have been significantly better than any other modern wars as well. So, what do you suggest instead?

Goldstein is dead. The war is over. Stop killing Afghans. Let me sort their own issues and politics out. If you are worried about them coming to your country and messing with you then stop all Saudis from coming to your country... you can also ban Afghans if it makes you feel better. It's like really what are the hoping to gain from all of this. The people resent you as much as anyone can resent anyone else. The gove…

The US did overreact and attempted to do nation building in Afghanistan. But your prescription for letting them sort things out on their own has already been tried, and it was a colossal failure. The government hosted terrorist organizations who killed thousands of people in the US and mounted attacks on civilians of many nationalities around the world.

Re: Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome'

#12

Post by tmb »

ambulancechaser wrote: post #9
tehjoker wrote: post #5

Love how the perspective of this argument is that instead of drone pilots succumbing to a real sense that what they are doing is unjustifiable, this guy is an "ethicist" that is attempting to say that we need to find a way to train morality out of people so they can push remote kill buttons and feel fine.

that reminds me of a suggestion of where to keep nuclear codes: > My suggestion was quite simple: Put that needed code number in a little capsule, and then implant that capsule right next to the heart of a volunteer. The volunteer would carry with him a big, heavy butcher knife as he accompanied the President. If ever the President wanted to fire nuclear weapons, the only way he could do so would be for him first, wi…

Direct link to article https://books.google.com/books?id=ygoAAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA16&ots=...

Re: Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome'

#13

Post by devoply »

tomohawk wrote: post #11
devoply wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Goldstein is dead. The war is over. Stop killing Afghans. Let me sort their own issues and politics out. If you are worried about them coming to your country and messing with you then stop all Saudis from coming to your country... you can also ban Afghans if it makes you feel better. It's like really what are the hoping to gain from all of this. The people resent you as much as anyone can resent anyone else. The gove…

The US did overreact and attempted to do nation building in Afghanistan. But your prescription for letting them sort things out on their own has already been tried, and it was a colossal failure. The government hosted terrorist organizations who killed thousands of people in the US and mounted attacks on civilians of many nationalities around the world.

You mean the US has been sitting there since the 70s. Trained a bunch of militants there who eventually turned on their colonial masters using them for brute force to fight the Soviets, don't you? The government who hosted the terrorist organization in Afghanistan then could be said to be the US.

Re: Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome'

#14

Post by mnm1 »

They are human beings killing people on command in an unjust situation. They should feel bad. They should be mentally hurt. They shouldn't just go about their lives like they completed a level in a videogame. This is what it means to be human and what it means to murder someone. All the bullshit justifications aside, it's impossible to keep rationalizing all the killings of the last seventy plus years. At least from a US perspective, we haven't been in a just war since WWII. The operators know this. So good. Maybe this will make the armed forces think twice about deploying such murderous technologies. I doubt it. But at least, hopefully less people will volunteer for sure murderous roles and missions. Once can only hope.

Re: Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome'

#15

Post by harimau777 »

devoply wrote: post #13
tomohawk wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US did overreact and attempted to do nation building in Afghanistan. But your prescription for letting them sort things out on their own has already been tried, and it was a colossal failure. The government hosted terrorist organizations who killed thousands of people in the US and mounted attacks on civilians of many nationalities around the world.

You mean the US has been sitting there since the 70s. Trained a bunch of militants there who eventually turned on their colonial masters using them for brute force to fight the Soviets, don't you? The government who hosted the terrorist organization in Afghanistan then could be said to be the US.

I'm not sure that's a fair characterization. Regardless of whether the US should have gotten involved or should have seen future problems coming, my understanding is that at the time that the US was supporting the Mujahideen they were attacking military targets and where therefore guerrilla fighters, not terrorists.

Re: Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome'

#16

Post by elif »

golergka wrote: post #7
anigbrowl wrote: post #2

The other day a drone in Afghanistan killed 30 civilians. Rather than being ISIS members holding a meeting, they were pine nut farmers gathering around a fire to relax after their day's work. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-afghanistan-attack-drones... I don't really give a fuck about the psychological condition of the drone pilots except insofar as it puts their children at risk. They and their commanders should…

Then you really lack perspective on what any warfare is: it's always critical, life or death decisions that have to be taken without sufficient information. US civilian to combatant casualty ratio in the recent conflicts have been significantly better than any other modern wars as well. So, what do you suggest instead?

>life or death decisions that have to be taken without sufficient information.

Sounds like you're describing warfare before Geneva conventions or the somehow permitted US war crimes to me.

Re: Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome'

#17

Post by hackeer »

golergka wrote: post #7
anigbrowl wrote: post #2

The other day a drone in Afghanistan killed 30 civilians. Rather than being ISIS members holding a meeting, they were pine nut farmers gathering around a fire to relax after their day's work. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-afghanistan-attack-drones... I don't really give a fuck about the psychological condition of the drone pilots except insofar as it puts their children at risk. They and their commanders should…

Then you really lack perspective on what any warfare is: it's always critical, life or death decisions that have to be taken without sufficient information. US civilian to combatant casualty ratio in the recent conflicts have been significantly better than any other modern wars as well. So, what do you suggest instead?

Shooting people from a drone is definitely not a life or death decision. And doing it just because they look like criminals is not a casualty of war, it's outright murder.

Any cop would be in death row for pulling something like this in American Soil.

Re: Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome'

#18

Post by OrgNet »

jedimastert wrote: post #3

The title should be more explicit about the fact that they're talking about "military drones" as opposed to quad-copters, which was my first thought. It's pretty obvious at first glance after the first click, but still... As far as the article itself, it feels somewhat worrying that the people who implemented these programs didn't think people would be bothered about killing other people. Someone had to have thought…

those mini drones are pretty cool too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HipTO_7mUOw

Re: Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome'

#19

Post by devoply »

harimau777 wrote: post #15
devoply wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean the US has been sitting there since the 70s. Trained a bunch of militants there who eventually turned on their colonial masters using them for brute force to fight the Soviets, don't you? The government who hosted the terrorist organization in Afghanistan then could be said to be the US.

I'm not sure that's a fair characterization. Regardless of whether the US should have gotten involved or should have seen future problems coming, my understanding is that at the time that the US was supporting the Mujahideen they were attacking military targets and where therefore guerrilla fighters, not terrorists.

It's funny how brainwashed most Americans are about this conflict, we might as well as be living in 1984's world. Have you heard the ancient saying one man's freedom fighter, another man's terrorist? What would happen if no terrorists had been trained by the US (and their Islamic puppet that wags the dog, Saudi Arabia)? The Soviet Union would have fallen and Afghanistan would be a normal country like its neighbors.

> After Taraki was murdered the new Afghan Prime Minister Hafizullah Amin repeated requests for Soviet military support, at least to protect his residence. Finally, in December the Politburo decided to deal with the situation in Afghanistan,[8] and in early December sent special forces which attacked Amin's palace and killed him, putting the exiled Babrak Kamal in his place. These forces were subsequently reinforced by the 40th Army which entered Afghanistan on 24 December 1979. As the Kremlin foresaw, this intervention would cause problems around the world for the USSR, with the policy of detente and, not least, at the forthcoming Olympic Games due to take place in summer 1980 in Moscow.[9] The result was a far-reaching boycott of the 1980 Summer Olympics in Moscow, supported not only by the United States but by many of the 65 other invited countries that did not take part.

> At its greatest extent the Soviet military contingent in Afghanistan numbered 100,000 personnel. This presence remained for a decade and kickstarted U.S. and Saudi funding for Islamic Mujahideen groups opposed to both the Afghan government and the Soviet military presence. The local Mujahideen, along with fighters from several different Arab nations (Pathan tribes from across the border also participated in the war; they were supported by the Pakistani ISI), fought the Soviet forces to a standstill. On 24 January 1989 Gorbachev's Politburo took the decision to withdraw most of the Soviet forces,[10] while continuing to provide military assistance to the Afghan government.[11] Eventually, in-fighting within the Mujahideen led to the rise of warlords in Afghanistan, and from them emerged the Taliban.[12] The Soviets left behind the only highway in the country as well as many concrete structures built in the major cities, and airfields that are still in use (e.g. at Bagram).

Re: Drone pilots could be experiencing 'sniper's syndrome'

#20

Post by rhizome »

tomohawk wrote: post #11
devoply wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Goldstein is dead. The war is over. Stop killing Afghans. Let me sort their own issues and politics out. If you are worried about them coming to your country and messing with you then stop all Saudis from coming to your country... you can also ban Afghans if it makes you feel better. It's like really what are the hoping to gain from all of this. The people resent you as much as anyone can resent anyone else. The gove…

The US did overreact and attempted to do nation building in Afghanistan. But your prescription for letting them sort things out on their own has already been tried, and it was a colossal failure. The government hosted terrorist organizations who killed thousands of people in the US and mounted attacks on civilians of many nationalities around the world.

Afghanistan has been a known quantity for decades: heroin or Taliban, pick one.

Beyond that, what's the international opinion on Erik Prince?

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