Live data from Hacker News

Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

pentestpartners.com

11–20 of 145 posts

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#11

Why even put the lock on the outside? All smart locks I've encountered just communicate wirelessly with a smart lock inside. Physical keys are used as a backup.

I like keypads. On a rental you can change them when tenants change. At home you can go out with keys or phone. Though it stands to reason you could put a keypad outside and run a wire inside, or use wireless though personally I'm glad my keypad lock isn't smart or wireless.

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#12

Isn't the point of a lock just to keep honest people honest? I mean you can buy the world's sturdiest, more secure lock and attach it to the world's strongest door, someone with a hammer can easily break a window. If someone is determined and willing, there really is nothing you can do to stop them from breaking into your house.

> Isn't the point of a lock just to keep honest people honest?

No. Honest people don't need to be "kept honest".

Locks have the same purpose as other security systems (including electronic ones like crypto, etc.).

They aren't intended to (and can't) keep a determined attacker out. What they do is increase the cost (in terms of time, effort, risk, etc.) of gaining access. The point is -- as far as possible -- to make the cost of gaining access exceed the benefit that would be gained by that access.

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#13

The video is a compelling demonstration of a design flaw, but I am always skeptical of lock opening displays that do not occur in a real-world application of the lock. Yeah, you ramsetted a lock. In a vise. Can you do that if it is dangling from a chain between two gate halves? Or would you bring out a bench and vise to your target? Ok, you picked a lock. In a vise. Is it easily pickable while hanging from a hasp, wi…

> Can you do that if it is dangling from a chain between two gate halves? Or would you bring out a bench and vise to your target?

I would just mount a clamp to the front of the Ramset gun.

> Is the drill able to be positioned in such a manner when the lock is installed on a door? It doesn't look like it.

It really looks like it to me, you need to drill the front of the door.

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#15
post #12

Isn't the point of a lock just to keep honest people honest? I mean you can buy the world's sturdiest, more secure lock and attach it to the world's strongest door, someone with a hammer can easily break a window. If someone is determined and willing, there really is nothing you can do to stop them from breaking into your house.

> Isn't the point of a lock just to keep honest people honest? No. Honest people don't need to be "kept honest". Locks have the same purpose as other security systems (including electronic ones like crypto, etc.). They aren't intended to (and can't) keep a determined attacker out. What they do is increase the cost (in terms of time, effort, risk, etc.) of gaining access. The point is -- as far as possible -- to make…

Maybe if you live in Baltimore or Detroit but in most of the US people really need a good reason to do that kind of thing.

In college I had a friend who didn't even bother locking his door and always left his keys in his car and it was never a problem.

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#16
post #15
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't the point of a lock just to keep honest people honest? No. Honest people don't need to be "kept honest". Locks have the same purpose as other security systems (including electronic ones like crypto, etc.). They aren't intended to (and can't) keep a determined attacker out. What they do is increase the cost (in terms of time, effort, risk, etc.) of gaining access. The point is -- as far as possible -- to make…

Maybe if you live in Baltimore or Detroit but in most of the US people really need a good reason to do that kind of thing. In college I had a friend who didn't even bother locking his door and always left his keys in his car and it was never a problem.

The second half of your post is survivor bias.

The first part of your post is pure hyperbole. There are plenty of places less crime ridden then Baltimore or Detroit where you absolutely have to lock your things or they are likely to get stolen. Pretty much any urban area in the US. Most suburbs as well if you park on the street. Kids will go down and just try doors. They have no intent of picking anything or forcible entry, just snatching the low hanging fruit.

I have lived in northwestern Nebraska so I get it, there are places where you don’t have to ever lock your door.. that is the exception.

To counter your friend: I lived in one of the lowest crime rate suburbs in the US. Stupidly left my door unlocked in an apartment parking lot overnight.. everything of value was cleaned out in the morning.

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#17

Isn't the point of a lock just to keep honest people honest? I mean you can buy the world's sturdiest, more secure lock and attach it to the world's strongest door, someone with a hammer can easily break a window. If someone is determined and willing, there really is nothing you can do to stop them from breaking into your house.

There are doors... and there are doors

https://youtu.be/ET9SNXpeORY

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#18

Slightly related to this, the Lock Picking Lawyer on Youtube has number of videos where he tries a Ramset gun [1] against different padlocks. For example: https://youtu.be/Wimo09WV-rY This was interesting as it was an attack that certainly would not have crossed my mind. Would be interesting to see how other types of locks would do against this kind of tool. [1] https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ramset-MasterShot-0-22-Cali…

Interesting - I do wonder how well that attack would work in a normal use setting where it could become much harder to brace the lock against something.

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#19

Isn't the point of a lock just to keep honest people honest? I mean you can buy the world's sturdiest, more secure lock and attach it to the world's strongest door, someone with a hammer can easily break a window. If someone is determined and willing, there really is nothing you can do to stop them from breaking into your house.

A primary point of a lock is to keep people from acting impulsively. Consider these scenarios, ordered by decreasing likelihood of "yes, you would peek your head in" — or "yes, you would slip in and steal something":

If your neighbor leaves their door open, do you peek your head in out of curiosity?

If your neighbor leaves their door unlocked, do you open the door and peek your head in out of curiosity?

If your neighbor locks their door with a combination of 1234, do you open the combination lock, open the door, and peek your head in out of curiosity?

If your neighbor locks their door with a radio-frequency lock, do you install an app to capture their lock signal and replay it later, open the door, and peek your head in out of curiosity?

None of these protect against a determined attacker, but they absolutely do protect against impulsive "low risk, high opportunity" actions.

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#20
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if you live in Baltimore or Detroit but in most of the US people really need a good reason to do that kind of thing. In college I had a friend who didn't even bother locking his door and always left his keys in his car and it was never a problem.

The second half of your post is survivor bias. The first part of your post is pure hyperbole. There are plenty of places less crime ridden then Baltimore or Detroit where you absolutely have to lock your things or they are likely to get stolen. Pretty much any urban area in the US. Most suburbs as well if you park on the street. Kids will go down and just try doors. They have no intent of picking anything or forcible…

This is not even a US specific issue. Vancouver, BC has a serious problem with (heroin, meth, cocaine) addicts and property crime. Theft from vehicles and from vehicles in supposedly "secure" underground parking garages is epidemic. No bicycle worth more than 50 dollars is safe locked in public, no matter what kind of lock it has on it.
Post reply on HN