Xilinx FPGA Board for Arduino • Hacker News Board

Re: Xilinx FPGA Board for Arduino

#11

Post by bb88 » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 4:25 AM UTC

seabird wrote: post #3

I don't understand why people believe that the "year of the maker FPGA" is ever going to happen. An FPGA is by its very nature a technology that many embedded engineers (let alone hobbyist maker types) will never take advantage of in earnest. I'd imagine that if you're developing hardware that requires an FPGA, odds are high that you don't need or want an Arduino bolt-on.

Right now, the homebrew electronics industry is buzzing like linux and open source was in 1996. PCB design and manufacturing has been opened up to millions by cost reductions and open source software in the past few years. FPGA development is following suit as well.

One of the big drawbacks of using an Arduino is that it is so limited in the number of modern devices it can access (USB 3, SATA, HDMI In or Out, etc).

To that end I think LiteX maybe the most intriguing thing I've seen this year if it catches on popularity. It's an SoC builder, which would allow for DIY SoC's (including using a RISC V core).

https://github.com/enjoy-digital/litex

I'm not saying it's guaranteed, but it's looking more and more possible that FPGA's using LiteX or similar technology could disrupt the embedded micro controller market particularly for the homebrew market. You can choose the CPU you want to code for with the interfaces you're using.

Also check out the current supported litex FPGA platforms:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XTHfdYXuvwoYdPXm4M6q...

Re: Xilinx FPGA Board for Arduino

#12

Post by Crosseye_Jack » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 4:29 AM UTC

Meh it’s a Xilinx part. They are too lawyer heavy for my liking, issuing takedowns on educational vids [0] and file DMCA takedowns of reverse engineering [1]

[0] https://youtube.com/watch?v=swVuqG9-H0E

[1] https://github.com/github/dmca/search?utf8=&q=Xilinx&type=

Re: Xilinx FPGA Board for Arduino

#13

Post by UncleOxidant » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 4:30 AM UTC

bb88 wrote: post #11

seabird wrote: post #3

I don't understand why people believe that the "year of the maker FPGA" is ever going to happen. An FPGA is by its very nature a technology that many embedded engineers (let alone hobbyist maker types) will never take advantage of in earnest. I'd imagine that if you're developing hardware that requires an FPGA, odds are high that you don't need or want an Arduino bolt-on.

Right now, the homebrew electronics industry is buzzing like linux and open source was in 1996. PCB design and manufacturing has been opened up to millions by cost reductions and open source software in the past few years. FPGA development is following suit as well. One of the big drawbacks of using an Arduino is that it is so limited in the number of modern devices it can access (USB 3, SATA, HDMI In or Out, etc). T…

Thanks for the heads up. LiteX looks really interesting.

Re: Xilinx FPGA Board for Arduino

#14

Post by bb88 » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 4:34 AM UTC

Crosseye_Jack wrote: post #12

Meh it’s a Xilinx part. They are too lawyer heavy for my liking, issuing takedowns on educational vids [0] and file DMCA takedowns of reverse engineering [1] [0] https://youtube.com/watch?v=swVuqG9-H0E [1] https://github.com/github/dmca/search?utf8=&q=Xilinx&type=

Doesn't seem to have stopped Symbiflow from supporting Xilinx-7 parts.

https://symbiflow.github.io/

Re: Xilinx FPGA Board for Arduino

#15

Post by waste_monk » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 4:35 AM UTC

seabird wrote: post #3

I don't understand why people believe that the "year of the maker FPGA" is ever going to happen. An FPGA is by its very nature a technology that many embedded engineers (let alone hobbyist maker types) will never take advantage of in earnest. I'd imagine that if you're developing hardware that requires an FPGA, odds are high that you don't need or want an Arduino bolt-on.

>I'd imagine that if you're developing hardware that requires an FPGA, odds are high that you don't need or want an Arduino bolt-on.

I can see people using it just for the convenience factor - if you can perform update the FPGA by loading a new bitstream via the arduino or the ESP32 (assuming that's a thing you can do) over IP or zigbee or something, you could fix mistakes remotely. Handy if you were using it for e.g. ham radio and had it mounted in a box at the top of a radio tower, and didn't feel like making the climbs to adjust it.

Re: Xilinx FPGA Board for Arduino

#16

Post by Crosseye_Jack » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 5:05 AM UTC

bb88 wrote: post #14

Crosseye_Jack wrote: post #12

Meh it’s a Xilinx part. They are too lawyer heavy for my liking, issuing takedowns on educational vids [0] and file DMCA takedowns of reverse engineering [1] [0] https://youtube.com/watch?v=swVuqG9-H0E [1] https://github.com/github/dmca/search?utf8=&q=Xilinx&type=

Doesn't seem to have stopped Symbiflow from supporting Xilinx-7 parts. https://symbiflow.github.io/

Who Xilinx choose to set their lawyers on is up to Xilinx.

They promised to clam down and update their policies after the education video takedown blew up in their face back in January, but they have yet to do update their policies so as far as I can see from their legal page (which is where they said they would post the updated policy).

As the saying goes. Once bitten, twice shy.

Re: Xilinx FPGA Board for Arduino

#17

Post by lnsru » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 5:16 AM UTC

bb88 wrote: post #11

seabird wrote: post #3

I don't understand why people believe that the "year of the maker FPGA" is ever going to happen. An FPGA is by its very nature a technology that many embedded engineers (let alone hobbyist maker types) will never take advantage of in earnest. I'd imagine that if you're developing hardware that requires an FPGA, odds are high that you don't need or want an Arduino bolt-on.

Right now, the homebrew electronics industry is buzzing like linux and open source was in 1996. PCB design and manufacturing has been opened up to millions by cost reductions and open source software in the past few years. FPGA development is following suit as well. One of the big drawbacks of using an Arduino is that it is so limited in the number of modern devices it can access (USB 3, SATA, HDMI In or Out, etc). T…

You are ignoring price point. Small FPGA board from Digilent costs as much as Raspberry Pi 4 4 GB. Development on Raspberry Pi is much more convenient, it is powerful and it already has decent CSI-2, 4K HDMI, Ethernet. Comparable FPGA board goes for hundreds $/€. Because decent CSI-2 with high frame rate and resolution as well as 4K HDMI need decent FPGA with transceivers. Add long hardware development cycles and this gets really boring really fast for most hobbyists.

Re: Xilinx FPGA Board for Arduino

#18

Post by skybrian » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 5:36 AM UTC

lnsru wrote: post #17

bb88 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now, the homebrew electronics industry is buzzing like linux and open source was in 1996. PCB design and manufacturing has been opened up to millions by cost reductions and open source software in the past few years. FPGA development is following suit as well. One of the big drawbacks of using an Arduino is that it is so limited in the number of modern devices it can access (USB 3, SATA, HDMI In or Out, etc). T…

You are ignoring price point. Small FPGA board from Digilent costs as much as Raspberry Pi 4 4 GB. Development on Raspberry Pi is much more convenient, it is powerful and it already has decent CSI-2, 4K HDMI, Ethernet. Comparable FPGA board goes for hundreds $/€. Because decent CSI-2 with high frame rate and resolution as well as 4K HDMI need decent FPGA with transceivers. Add long hardware development cycles and thi…

I'm just getting started on electronics for an audio project, but the Arduino setup of compiling code on my regular computer and uploading it over USB to firmware seems pretty nice? Since I'm never going to connect it to the Internet or even a monitor, why does Ethernet or HDMI matter? Let alone 4K HDMI.

It seems like that's more about having a cheap desktop computer than doing electronics? But I already have a desktop computer.

Re: Xilinx FPGA Board for Arduino

#19

Post by anyfoo » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 5:47 AM UTC

seabird wrote: post #3

I don't understand why people believe that the "year of the maker FPGA" is ever going to happen. An FPGA is by its very nature a technology that many embedded engineers (let alone hobbyist maker types) will never take advantage of in earnest. I'd imagine that if you're developing hardware that requires an FPGA, odds are high that you don't need or want an Arduino bolt-on.

FPGAs are pretty amazing for all kinds of signal processing, and that's what I use them for pretty extensively in my hobbies, but I don't really know how prevalent that is in the Maker community (especially beyond a level where you could use DSPs instead).

Maybe for the SDR crowd?

Re: Xilinx FPGA Board for Arduino

#20

Post by seabird » Wed, Sep 25, 2019, 6:04 AM UTC

bb88 wrote: post #11

seabird wrote: post #3

I don't understand why people believe that the "year of the maker FPGA" is ever going to happen. An FPGA is by its very nature a technology that many embedded engineers (let alone hobbyist maker types) will never take advantage of in earnest. I'd imagine that if you're developing hardware that requires an FPGA, odds are high that you don't need or want an Arduino bolt-on.

Right now, the homebrew electronics industry is buzzing like linux and open source was in 1996. PCB design and manufacturing has been opened up to millions by cost reductions and open source software in the past few years. FPGA development is following suit as well. One of the big drawbacks of using an Arduino is that it is so limited in the number of modern devices it can access (USB 3, SATA, HDMI In or Out, etc). T…

The Arduino is limited in regards to capabilities because it's a heavy ecosystem (usually) running on a wildly anemic device; you're out of your mind if you're expecting HDMI enc/dec, USB host controller, etc. on an 8-bit microcontroller. The usefulness of LiteX is severely mitigated by just using more powerful microcontrollers coupled with purpose-specific parts.