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Former developer at software company deletes his code to protest its ties to ICE

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Re: Former developer at software company deletes his code to protest its ties to ICE

#11

Post by ceejayoz »

konceptz wrote: post #7
schmookeeg wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, I overlooked that somehow. (pre-morning tea over here :) ) I haven't read many OSS licenses. Can't someone just publish an 'unethical' fork and life goes on?

Interesting approach. Makes me wonder if you authored a component and extended a license to say that “use of this code must abide by [inert relevant code of ethics]”, could you enforce that?

The license for JSON is an example of this. https://www.json.org/license.html

> The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil.

IBM requested, and received, an exemption...

> I give permission for IBM, its customers, partners, and minions, to use JSLint for evil.

which apparently pleased their lawyers.

Re: Former developer at software company deletes his code to protest its ties to ICE

#12

Post by cco »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #10
konceptz wrote: post #2

The technicals of the story are interesting around the software supply chain. I’m put off by the statement: “I want to be clear that this decision is not about contract value—it is about maintaining a consistent and fair business approach in these volatile times,” he wrote. “I do not believe that it is appropriate, practical, or within our mission to examine specific government projects with the purpose of selecting…

It's definitely impractical to say you won't do business with anyone who does things you don't endorse. Imagine an electrician trying to demand a certification that the buildings he works on will host only ethical tenants. You just can't run a company that way; even people who do meet your ethical standards won't do business with you. If you think that ICE is so uniquely bad that they specifically need to be boycotte…

There were a lot of electricians on the Death Star...

Re: Former developer at software company deletes his code to protest its ties to ICE

#13

Post by bradleyjg »

konceptz wrote: post #2

The technicals of the story are interesting around the software supply chain. I’m put off by the statement: “I want to be clear that this decision is not about contract value—it is about maintaining a consistent and fair business approach in these volatile times,” he wrote. “I do not believe that it is appropriate, practical, or within our mission to examine specific government projects with the purpose of selecting…

It does seem odd and convenient to say I’ve got no problem making money from this part of the government but I won’t sell to that part of the government. It’s the same Congress and President making decisions for all the parts. Either it’s beyond the pale or it isn’t. I mean, would you do business with ISIS so long as the particular sub-project you were providing material for was innocuous?

Re: Former developer at software company deletes his code to protest its ties to ICE

#14

Post by moomin »

bradleyjg wrote: post #13
konceptz wrote: post #2

The technicals of the story are interesting around the software supply chain. I’m put off by the statement: “I want to be clear that this decision is not about contract value—it is about maintaining a consistent and fair business approach in these volatile times,” he wrote. “I do not believe that it is appropriate, practical, or within our mission to examine specific government projects with the purpose of selecting…

It does seem odd and convenient to say I’ve got no problem making money from this part of the government but I won’t sell to that part of the government. It’s the same Congress and President making decisions for all the parts. Either it’s beyond the pale or it isn’t. I mean, would you do business with ISIS so long as the particular sub-project you were providing material for was innocuous?

I don’t think this tracks. I mean, the American Government is also part of the human race. Because we object to one part of the human race should we refuse to deal with any of it?

Humans have to make moral choices about where they personally draw the line and where they draw the boundary. Around the organisation that falsely imprisons Americans and runs concentration camps seems like a starting point.

Re: Former developer at software company deletes his code to protest its ties to ICE

#15

Post by lazyasciiart »

schmookeeg wrote: post #5
konceptz wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the article, the developer already was not working for Chef. Chef was/is relying on OSS components which the former develop pulled from the open repository. -edit for clarity.

Thanks, I overlooked that somehow. (pre-morning tea over here :) ) I haven't read many OSS licenses. Can't someone just publish an 'unethical' fork and life goes on?

Thats exactly what has happened.

Re: Former developer at software company deletes his code to protest its ties to ICE

#16

Post by moomin »

schmookeeg wrote: post #5
konceptz wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the article, the developer already was not working for Chef. Chef was/is relying on OSS components which the former develop pulled from the open repository. -edit for clarity.

Thanks, I overlooked that somehow. (pre-morning tea over here :) ) I haven't read many OSS licenses. Can't someone just publish an 'unethical' fork and life goes on?

Someone (Chef) has already unethically forked it.

Re: Former developer at software company deletes his code to protest its ties to ICE

#17

Post by mcguire »

"Another user pointed out that Chef isn’t the only company to profit from working with ICE. Microsoft has raked in $4.6 million, IBM has received $1.6 million, and CISCO has received about $500,000 through their work with ICE."

Those numbers seem very low. Is this just for one year or one contract?

Re: Former developer at software company deletes his code to protest its ties to ICE

#18

Post by caseysoftware »

konceptz wrote: post #7
schmookeeg wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, I overlooked that somehow. (pre-morning tea over here :) ) I haven't read many OSS licenses. Can't someone just publish an 'unethical' fork and life goes on?

Interesting approach. Makes me wonder if you authored a component and extended a license to say that “use of this code must abide by [inert relevant code of ethics]”, could you enforce that?

Fundamentally, it depends on the license. When this came up under Bush 43, the appeal was "the military is not allowed to use this!" and RMS and many others pointed out terms like this. This one is from the GPL v3 specifically:

> All rights granted under this License are granted for the term of copyright on the Program, and are irrevocable provided the stated conditions are met. This License explicitly affirms your unlimited permission to run the unmodified Program.

Other licenses have similar clauses and a short list of requirements which must be met. Since the relevant groups, agencies, etc were (and presumably are) meeting the requirements, there's no grounds to revoke the license.

iirc, the Open Source Initiative stated that any claims/requirements limiting who could use the software or where they could use it would not meet the definition of "open source."

Re: Former developer at software company deletes his code to protest its ties to ICE

#19

Post by mcguire »

moomin wrote: post #14
bradleyjg wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does seem odd and convenient to say I’ve got no problem making money from this part of the government but I won’t sell to that part of the government. It’s the same Congress and President making decisions for all the parts. Either it’s beyond the pale or it isn’t. I mean, would you do business with ISIS so long as the particular sub-project you were providing material for was innocuous?

I don’t think this tracks. I mean, the American Government is also part of the human race. Because we object to one part of the human race should we refuse to deal with any of it? Humans have to make moral choices about where they personally draw the line and where they draw the boundary. Around the organisation that falsely imprisons Americans and runs concentration camps seems like a starting point.

Yes?

(Having a misanthropic moment here.)

Re: Former developer at software company deletes his code to protest its ties to ICE

#20

Post by bradleyjg »

moomin wrote: post #14
bradleyjg wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does seem odd and convenient to say I’ve got no problem making money from this part of the government but I won’t sell to that part of the government. It’s the same Congress and President making decisions for all the parts. Either it’s beyond the pale or it isn’t. I mean, would you do business with ISIS so long as the particular sub-project you were providing material for was innocuous?

I don’t think this tracks. I mean, the American Government is also part of the human race. Because we object to one part of the human race should we refuse to deal with any of it? Humans have to make moral choices about where they personally draw the line and where they draw the boundary. Around the organisation that falsely imprisons Americans and runs concentration camps seems like a starting point.

No one is in charge of making decisions for the human race. The President and Congress make decisions for all of the federal government.

If you thought the Windows division of Microsoft was acting extremely unethically would you still do business with the XBox division? It’s one CEO and one board that runs both.

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