How Bitcoin Ends • Hacker News Board

Re: How Bitcoin Ends

#11

Post by kinghajj » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 11:39 PM UTC

shiado wrote: post #6

I have no doubt that Bitcoin will end someday, most likely from QC breaking ECDSA, but this is perhaps the most illiterate and uninformed takedown I have ever read on the subject.

That's not really a problem. Addresses aren't the entire ECDSA public key, but a hash digest of it. The entire public key is only revealed once a transaction is made from an address to another. So an address that has only received coins, but never sent any, is entirely immune from QC. (This, by the way, is why you're never supposed to reuse addresses, since once you move coins from an address once, it's possible for someone offline to try and break the key.)

Re: How Bitcoin Ends

#12

Post by quocble » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 11:40 PM UTC

Aside from the flaws of the article, there are something to be said about how centralized bitcoin has become. Most of the bitcoins are held by centralized exchanges, or "qualified" custodian (locked up in ETF and other exchanges). They essentially act like centralized banks, the exact thing we're trying to avoid. The only saving grace is we can send to native wallet, giving us some freedom from the institutions.

Re: How Bitcoin Ends

#13

Post by andirk » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 12:15 AM UTC

shiado wrote: post #6

I have no doubt that Bitcoin will end someday, most likely from QC breaking ECDSA, but this is perhaps the most illiterate and uninformed takedown I have ever read on the subject.

I mean, everything ends eventually, right?

Re: How Bitcoin Ends

#14

Post by eurleif » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 12:23 AM UTC

tristanho wrote: post #7

This article makes pretty blatant errors: > We thought the net would break the monopoly of top-down, corporate media. But as business interests took over it has become primarily a delivery system for streaming television to consumers, and consumer data to advertisers. Weird thing to say about an era where traditional publishers and news networks have been entirely disrupted by random folks posting on twitter/facebook…

> At its core, bitcoin is just an extension of the old PGP, or Pretty Good Privacy encryption protocol.

Grampa Simpson: "Oh, everything's stolen nowadays. Why, the fax machine is nothing but a waffle iron with a phone attached!"

Re: How Bitcoin Ends

#15

Post by IshKebab » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 8:10 AM UTC

TooSmugToFail wrote: post #9

So much nonsense in this article, don't know where to start...

Yeah I stopped reading after this:

> At its core, bitcoin is just an extension of the old PGP, or Pretty Good Privacy encryption protocol.

Re: How Bitcoin Ends

#16

Post by polyakoff » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 10:13 AM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #4

HashThis wrote: post #2

This is how Bitcoin ends up... * Bitcoin and Ethereum are grandfathered into not requiring KYC and AML. They are the rare currency with zero friction. * All new currencies require KYC and AML. This is happening right now * Other currencies can have some positives (backed by revenue generating assets, etc.). But they can be confiscated by governments * Bitcoin always has a place, as the zero friction, no-KYC currency.…

Have you tried TransferWise? I just tested in app, and they’ll convert $1000 USD to INR for $9 USD immediately. I have their Borderless account and hold balances in several currencies at once, with access using a debit card, wires, ACH (US), SWIFT (EU) etc. Highly recommend!

There is plenty of services like this nowadays. I recall TrensferGO and Revolut. There is even a service for fees comparison amongst those services, developed be hackernews fellow reader: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20819538

Re: How Bitcoin Ends

#17

Post by toomuchtodo » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 3:09 PM UTC

polyakoff wrote: post #16

toomuchtodo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried TransferWise? I just tested in app, and they’ll convert $1000 USD to INR for $9 USD immediately. I have their Borderless account and hold balances in several currencies at once, with access using a debit card, wires, ACH (US), SWIFT (EU) etc. Highly recommend!

There is plenty of services like this nowadays. I recall TrensferGO and Revolut. There is even a service for fees comparison amongst those services, developed be hackernews fellow reader: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20819538

Excellent resource!

Re: How Bitcoin Ends

#18

Post by tromp » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 8:45 PM UTC

kinghajj wrote: post #11

shiado wrote: post #6

I have no doubt that Bitcoin will end someday, most likely from QC breaking ECDSA, but this is perhaps the most illiterate and uninformed takedown I have ever read on the subject.

That's not really a problem. Addresses aren't the entire ECDSA public key, but a hash digest of it. The entire public key is only revealed once a transaction is made from an address to another. So an address that has only received coins, but never sent any, is entirely immune from QC. (This, by the way, is why you're never supposed to reuse addresses, since once you move coins from an address once, it's possible for…

It is a real problem. Millions of BTC are locked in addresses with known public key, due to either the formerly popular Pay-to-Public-Key script, or the ever popular practice of addresses re-use that you also mentioned.