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Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

swissinfo.ch

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Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#11

Post by Havoc »

88840-8855 wrote: post #5

I am no expert, it would be great to read it from someone with knowledge in this field. What if a shell corp is created in a country that is not included in the list of the ownership info automatic exchange? Instead of option A, someone could go with option B and would be fully protected: Option A: Owner in the UK -> Swiss Bank account Option B: Owner in the UK -> Shell corp & legal entity in a country not included i…

That's where the concept of UBO comes in - the reporting party is supposed to trace this through to the ultimate beneficial owner. And if they can't then they're not supposed to accept the business (KYC fail).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beneficial_ownership

A lot of the offshore locations a laymen can name report this stuff anyway (to varying degrees of course).

The whole straight up hiding money approach(Or to put it in hn terms "security through obscurity") isn't really a thing anymore.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#12

Post by lawl »

kmonsen wrote: post #6

Swiss banks doesn't actually disclose to swiss authorities, even though the have a wealth tax based partially on the money in your bank account.

> Swiss banks doesn't actually disclose to swiss authorities, even though the have a wealth tax based partially on the money in your bank account.

(i'm swiss)

I believe there is no way in hell they could have passed this legislation if it included giving data of swiss citizens to the swiss government.

People here cherish their banking secrecy and it's still somewhat part of the national identity.

From a swiss point of view it was/is pretty much: The US is pressuring us too much, we'll have to give up banking secrecy, but only for foreigners.

If they didn't do that, i'm fairly certain it would have been shot down by the people with a referendum.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#13

Post by Muromec »

Havoc wrote: post #11
88840-8855 wrote: post #5

I am no expert, it would be great to read it from someone with knowledge in this field. What if a shell corp is created in a country that is not included in the list of the ownership info automatic exchange? Instead of option A, someone could go with option B and would be fully protected: Option A: Owner in the UK -> Swiss Bank account Option B: Owner in the UK -> Shell corp & legal entity in a country not included i…

That's where the concept of UBO comes in - the reporting party is supposed to trace this through to the ultimate beneficial owner. And if they can't then they're not supposed to accept the business (KYC fail). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beneficial_ownership A lot of the offshore locations a laymen can name report this stuff anyway (to varying degrees of course). The whole straight up hiding money approach(Or to pu…

Wasn’t there an article recently describing how you can register a company in UK through a web portal and put absolute rubbish in a UBO field without having to submit any single piece of documentary evidence?

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#14

Post by throwaway4792 »

dbrgn wrote: post #9

To me as a Swiss citizen, born in Switzerland, living in Switzerland, it's an impertinence that every time I open a bank account with a Swiss bank I have to fill out at least 1 form with information about my relation to the US, about my travels in the US and whether I might have to pay taxes there. As a side note, the only other country besides the US that collects taxes based on citizenship and not based on residenc…

Definitely understand that it feels like a slap in the face given Switzerland's tradition of bank secrecy, but the reason these (multinational) banks now do this is that, generally speaking, they and their customers are paying a modest inconvenience for their past criminal actions. These banks are not solely Swiss; they are multinational corporations and were probably breaking the law. Maybe not Swiss law, but the law of countries they had a nexus with.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UBS_tax_evasion_controversies

https://www.accountingtoday.com/articles/a-top-swiss-bank-se...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/swiss-bank-...

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/commentary/1mdb-najib-r...

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#15

Post by ekianjo »

dbrgn wrote: post #9

To me as a Swiss citizen, born in Switzerland, living in Switzerland, it's an impertinence that every time I open a bank account with a Swiss bank I have to fill out at least 1 form with information about my relation to the US, about my travels in the US and whether I might have to pay taxes there. As a side note, the only other country besides the US that collects taxes based on citizenship and not based on residenc…

> US that collects taxes based on citizenship and not based on residence is Eritrea

I believe Japan also does that, for a few years now.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#16

Post by skunkpocalypse »

Muromec wrote: post #13
Havoc wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's where the concept of UBO comes in - the reporting party is supposed to trace this through to the ultimate beneficial owner. And if they can't then they're not supposed to accept the business (KYC fail). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beneficial_ownership A lot of the offshore locations a laymen can name report this stuff anyway (to varying degrees of course). The whole straight up hiding money approach(Or to pu…

Wasn’t there an article recently describing how you can register a company in UK through a web portal and put absolute rubbish in a UBO field without having to submit any single piece of documentary evidence?

Irrelevant -- the banks don't use that field; they are required to do their own independent UBO investigation.

People don't seem to get this that "shell corporations" are only "shells" until they try to open a bank account or do anything involving money.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#17

Post by GuiA »

dbrgn wrote: post #9

To me as a Swiss citizen, born in Switzerland, living in Switzerland, it's an impertinence that every time I open a bank account with a Swiss bank I have to fill out at least 1 form with information about my relation to the US, about my travels in the US and whether I might have to pay taxes there. As a side note, the only other country besides the US that collects taxes based on citizenship and not based on residenc…

There’s a very active association of French people with US nationality - because they were born on US soil, but moved back to France soon after, in some cases because their parents were briefly working there, or on vacation and thought it’d be nice for their kid to have the US nationality - advocating against this.

“The association of Accidental Americans”:

https://www.americains-accidentels.fr/

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#18

Post by nradov »

dbrgn wrote: post #9

To me as a Swiss citizen, born in Switzerland, living in Switzerland, it's an impertinence that every time I open a bank account with a Swiss bank I have to fill out at least 1 form with information about my relation to the US, about my travels in the US and whether I might have to pay taxes there. As a side note, the only other country besides the US that collects taxes based on citizenship and not based on residenc…

Swiss banks are in that position today because some of them engaged in criminal conspiracies to help US customers commit tax fraud. If they want to participate in the US financial system then they have to play by US rules.

US citizens residing in other countries can still receive some services and protection from the US federal government. So it's completely fair to tax them for that. We can argue about the value of those services but clearly it's >0. Those who don't like the deal are free to pay an administrative fee and renounce their citizenship.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#19

Post by Havoc »

Muromec wrote: post #13
Havoc wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's where the concept of UBO comes in - the reporting party is supposed to trace this through to the ultimate beneficial owner. And if they can't then they're not supposed to accept the business (KYC fail). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beneficial_ownership A lot of the offshore locations a laymen can name report this stuff anyway (to varying degrees of course). The whole straight up hiding money approach(Or to pu…

Wasn’t there an article recently describing how you can register a company in UK through a web portal and put absolute rubbish in a UBO field without having to submit any single piece of documentary evidence?

No idea what UK company registration processes look like.

Possibly. You're not gonna get far moving your mountain of coin without the help of lawyers, accountants, investment bankers, banks, prime brokers etc.

...none of whom will touch you if you can't prove this stuff reasonably well.

As for people submitting straight up fraudulent info - rules don't stop people like that in the same way sternly telling a mugger that it's illegal won't stop them from taking your wallet. Checks & balances sure but beyond a certain level of illegality more rules achieve nothing.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#20

Post by magduf »

teunispeters wrote: post #7
88840-8855 wrote: post #5

I am no expert, it would be great to read it from someone with knowledge in this field. What if a shell corp is created in a country that is not included in the list of the ownership info automatic exchange? Instead of option A, someone could go with option B and would be fully protected: Option A: Owner in the UK -> Swiss Bank account Option B: Owner in the UK -> Shell corp & legal entity in a country not included i…

From following the Vancouver/BC/Canada real estate market, this is very common and normal. (related : Vancouver BC reaching third most expensive city in the world status a couple of years back, for reasons that have little or nothing to do with local populations) The closest I can get to sources though: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/laundered-mo... https://www.cbc.ca/radio/podcasts/current-affairs-i…

>related : Vancouver BC reaching third most expensive city in the world status a couple of years back, for reasons that have little or nothing to do with local populations

What is it due to? I imagine ease of access to Chinese people who want a place to park their savings, plus nice weather, are the biggest factors. After all, all those wealthy Chinese people could just go to another city, like Edmonton, but they don't: what kind of insane person would want to live in a place where it's -40 in the winter if they didn't grow up there?

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