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Clarifying ProtonMail and Huawei

protonmail.com

11–20 of 72 posts

Re: Clarifying ProtonMail and Huawei

#11

I'd prefer to see them spending time on polishing their mobile app, which lacks in UX in important areas. For instance offline access to received, but yet unopened emails simply doesn't work. There is a (mis)feature where email bodies are downloaded only on notification, but in my case emails remain unavailable offline and Protonmail support was unhelpful. But even if email-via-notification worked, it is still pretty…

This comment comes across as particularly callous. They are saying a part of why they may support the Huawei app store is to continue to provide access to the app to those in developing countries, and your response is to say you'd prefer them spend time on your personal UX pet peeve...

I don't use ProtonMail but this seems like a fairly fundamental issue rather than a personal pet peeve. In my naivety, it also seems like the kind of issue that would cause considerable pain in developing countries who might likely have spotty internet connections, which would lead them straight into said issue.

So whilst it might have been meant callously, from my third party glance it seems quite important.

Re: Clarifying ProtonMail and Huawei

#12
post #9

Looks like Bloomberg is doing the same as with the "implant" rumors and Supermicro a few months ago. Gruber has a very nice disclaimer at the bottom of posts mentioning Bloomberg now: "Bloomberg, of course, is the publication that published “The Big Hack” last October — a sensational story alleging that data centers of Apple, Amazon, and dozens of other companies were compromised by China’s intelligence services. The…

It's as if they wanted to make PM look bad so that customers would rather opt for an Email provider that the NSA can spy on...

Re: Clarifying ProtonMail and Huawei

#14
post #9

Looks like Bloomberg is doing the same as with the "implant" rumors and Supermicro a few months ago. Gruber has a very nice disclaimer at the bottom of posts mentioning Bloomberg now: "Bloomberg, of course, is the publication that published “The Big Hack” last October — a sensational story alleging that data centers of Apple, Amazon, and dozens of other companies were compromised by China’s intelligence services. The…

As commonly with stories like this, people will see the Bloomberg story and not see the correction issued by ProtonMail. The harm is done, and ProtonMail is likely going to miss out on subscriptions because of Bloomberg's irresponsible publication. This tendency likely holds true even if Bloomberg were publishing the correction themselves, as it has been observed time and time again.

If you apply for a writer's job at Bloomberg or many of these media companies, people will ask you if you have a following on Twitter, Facebook and the like with which you can share content you write so that your employment poses a smaller risk to your new employer than someone with little to no following. That in itself might just make writers statistically more loyal to big tech than really necessary.

Re: Clarifying ProtonMail and Huawei

#15
post #4

As if I needed more evidence that Bloomberg is below 0 on the credibility scale. They are officially a tabloid to me now.

I still find it useful to read mainstream media, even 'free' publications like Metro and the Evening Standard in London. What I do is not read them for news per se, but a sort of high level scan of what the publication's bias is. What narratives are being pushed? How has the publication ordered, or prominently displayed articles? What news is completely omitted?

For example, no mainstream media outlet in the UK covers Al Quds day in London (absolutely nothing about this on the BBC or print media). Facts on the ground at the most recent (and previous) marches is that there is a lot of Hezbollah flags flown.

Another example is the BBC’s treatment of Brexit on three flagship panel shows, Question Time, Politics Live and Any Questions where Remain commentators outnumber Brexit commentators 3 to 1.

In this instance, Bloomberg seems to be wanting to push the 'Huawei is spying on you' narrative as well as 'Proton Mail isn't secure' narrative.

Make what you will of the points above, maybe they mean something, maybe they don't. I just keep an open mind, try to think for myself, see things from different perspectives, and do my best not to fall for my own cognitive biases.

I still use Proton Mail, and I trust their service more than GMail (I migrated from GMail to Proton Mail), but it's a nice reminder not to trust any corporation too much or get complacent with security. I really don't feel like rolling my own encrypted email solution so the question is, "Who am I willing to trust the solution to?" Ultimately I'm accountable to myself.

As for media bias, sometimes it is blatant, most times however I find it subtle. Either way it is pervasive. Unless you are scanning for it, I imagine it is incredibly easy not to think for yourself.

Re: Clarifying ProtonMail and Huawei

#17
post #15
post #4

As if I needed more evidence that Bloomberg is below 0 on the credibility scale. They are officially a tabloid to me now.

I still find it useful to read mainstream media, even 'free' publications like Metro and the Evening Standard in London. What I do is not read them for news per se, but a sort of high level scan of what the publication's bias is. What narratives are being pushed? How has the publication ordered, or prominently displayed articles? What news is completely omitted? For example, no mainstream media outlet in the UK cover…

I sympathise with the BBC as it must be hard finding people who are both articulate enough to appear and coherent when defending Brexit.

Re: Clarifying ProtonMail and Huawei

#18
post #10
post #6

I'd me more interested in their clarification on NordVPN, ProtonMail/VPN and the data gathering agency Tesonet.

Do you have a link?

The best way to learn about the incident is to read the discussions first-hand from the Hacker News, for example, by searching "inurl:ycombinator protonvpn tesonet". There is no point in reading any journalistic articles if you can read Proton's responses here, except one article [0] - a compilation of changing Proton's responses and them successively admitting more and more things not in their favor. The compilation starts at the part called "Online accusations fly".

[0] https://restoreprivacy.com/lawsuit-names-nordvpn-tesonet/

Re: Clarifying ProtonMail and Huawei

#19
At the risk of making myself a punching-bag for downvoting, here.

Bloomberg is a source that investors and traders trust with getting them some level of access to the rumour mill (in the spirit of the saying that exists among traders that goes "buy the rumour, sell the news"). The problem here is that, fact or fiction, rumours affect the financial markets, and not knowing about them puts a market participant at a disadvantage.

The article starts by saying in indicative mood "ProtonMail is in talks with Huawei Technologies Co. about including its encrypted email service in future mobile devices [...]" ...I don't really see a problem with that part of the statement since they were indeed in talks of some kind, and there's a certain bandwidth of what "including" could mean. It could just mean "making available through Huawei AppGallery", so there is nothing wrong with using indicative mood here.

In the second paragraph, the article switches the modality and says "The Swiss company’s service COULD come preloaded ..." Now, it could of course be the case, as people are alleging, that they just completely made that shit up and MANUFACTURED a rumour. But it could also be the case that they were reflecting a rumour that was already out there and sufficiently widespread that they thought that investors and traders should know about it. They used subjunctive mood using the auxiliary verb COULD to signal that there was something going on here about the modality of the statement.

ProtonMail speculated that a misunderstanding of their earlier announcement must have been the basis of Bloomberg's article. But I guess we'll never find out if that was indeed so.

ProtonMail clarified their earlier announcement and took issue with the word "partnership" being used to describe their relationship with Huawei, but, interestingly, they did not come flat out to respond to these assertions. For example, they did not say that preloading was not a topic that was discussed.

Now, it stands to reason that preloading would amount to Huawei handing a huge chunk of marketshare to ProtonMail, and then it's up to users to make up their minds about the likelihood of Huawei asking for quid-pro-quo and ProtonMail's response.

Rather than there being no basis at all for the Bloomberg article, another scenario could be that ProtonMail saw that making-up-of-minds play out on social media in response to the Bloomberg article and decided to do a one-eighty on that as a result.

...I guess we'll never know.

Re: Clarifying ProtonMail and Huawei

#20
post #17
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still find it useful to read mainstream media, even 'free' publications like Metro and the Evening Standard in London. What I do is not read them for news per se, but a sort of high level scan of what the publication's bias is. What narratives are being pushed? How has the publication ordered, or prominently displayed articles? What news is completely omitted? For example, no mainstream media outlet in the UK cover…

I sympathise with the BBC as it must be hard finding people who are both articulate enough to appear and coherent when defending Brexit.

actually, i am yet hear even a single valid coherant pro-eu(=anti democracy) argument even when they have floor/panel/whatever all to themselves.
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