Live data from Hacker News

71% of students learn more about IT at home than school

tes.co.uk

11–20 of 24 posts

Re: 71% of students learn more about IT at home than school

#11

In other news, 29% of students are under-educated about IT. Seriously though, I think it's clear, at least in CS, that if you only do your coursework you'll be left far behind your peers and what employers expect from you. It has to be something you can be passionate about on your own. Getting A's in all your classes but never doing anything outside of them isn't good enough.

I have to disagree. Passionate programmers have side projects all the time, school or work. But you can successfully be a completely mediocre (dare I say average?) programmer by just doing your classwork.

The typical Java and .Net business programming jobs out there require people who are absolutely lacking passion, otherwise they couldn't bear the day-to-day tasks. These jobs are not really desirable to good programmers, but they are the majority of opportunities out there.

Re: 71% of students learn more about IT at home than school

#12
The article didn't say where in the education system the surveyed students fell, but as a highschool student in the US I know this is definitely true. The majority of the students who attend the school I go to, which is actually pretty equipped in terms of modern computers, know more than the teachers do about how to use computers (and I'm not talking about updating a status on facebook). Sure, there are outliers, like the few teachers who do program in their spare time, and the few students who don't really know how to do anything with their computers, but my statement stands.

As to learning about IT at school versus at home, I know that I learned more about computers at home but other students really didn't know much about computers until we were lent them by our school and used them in the classroom.

Re: 71% of students learn more about IT at home than school

#13

In other news, 29% of students are under-educated about IT. Seriously though, I think it's clear, at least in CS, that if you only do your coursework you'll be left far behind your peers and what employers expect from you. It has to be something you can be passionate about on your own. Getting A's in all your classes but never doing anything outside of them isn't good enough.

I have to disagree. Passionate programmers have side projects all the time, school or work. But you can successfully be a completely mediocre (dare I say average?) programmer by just doing your classwork. The typical Java and .Net business programming jobs out there require people who are absolutely lacking passion, otherwise they couldn't bear the day-to-day tasks. These jobs are not really desirable to good program…

You will never find a above average programmer that isn't in some way passionate about what they do.

And really, "average" isn't really a good word to use here. People are idiots, but technically speaking your average person is of average intelligence. Those of us who consider ourselves to be in a higher tier generally consider "average" to be very sub-par.

Re: 71% of students learn more about IT at home than school

#14
I would guess that technically savvy (I mean really savvy) people are much better compensated outside of the education system.

I'd be curious how many readers on this site would even consider a teaching career. Personally, I'd love to teach, but lets face it, the pay just isn't that great.

Re: 71% of students learn more about IT at home than school

#16
I have found from my own experience that ICT teaching is quite shoddy, and a waste of time at best. This has been confirmed by accounts from friends and family at other schools.

Most teaching revolves around the ability to use certain microsoft products (Word, Excel, Outlook and Access if you're "lucky"). In some cases, they may even teach you Dreamweaver. I remember one lesson being taught to create websites in Dreamweaver - we were told to use tables to design the website, told off for viewing the HTML or heck, even changing the view mode so that each panel was a window.

I trialled (and have friends and family at different schools that actually did) a GCSE ICT exam, and I was somewhat bemused at a program that simulated XP, in which the purpose was to do a number of tasks (designated by an Outlook lookalike program) such as create a database, write a word document etc. The program would record every mouse click and keystroke, whilst timing how fast you did each task.

It depresses me that that is what people regard as computers in this day and age. The teachers were often primarily of another subject (Art, for example), and refused to teach at a rate faster than "don't you DARE press OK in that alert! Has everyone got that alert? Right! Now press OK!".

I also find this disappointing:

“There is confusion between teaching IT, and using IT as part of the learning process,” Mr Fish said.

This seems to be very fashionable in many schools across the UK. I have no idea why - is French better taught through the medium of computers? Does the use of interactive whiteboards really increase productivity and ability to learn - or even attentiveness amongst pupils? Certainly Maths and English were not helped by an increase in technology, at least in my opinion. And exactly what are the pupils learning about IT in the process?

When top CS departments across the UK scorn ICT/IT A Levels/GCSEs, and in some cases appear to treat them as anti-requisites (Cambridge list ICT as a soft subject and I remember Oxford jokingly say at an open day that they look at candidates more favourably if they hadn't been taught ICT before), and when they don't appear to be teaching pupils anything that will be much use in the workforce (or rather, stuff that they don't already know that will be any use in the workforce) - what exactly is the point?

Re: 71% of students learn more about IT at home than school

#17
Software as we all know it today is inseparable from the internet. Like a lot of learning or information exchange on the interent, it's largely a peer-to-peer activity (software being the exemplary). Academia is hierarchical and relies on a specialist gathering, filtering and preparing information to disseminate to many. The former is more error-prone but also much faster.

Or another way to look at it: If young John Resig builds a tool that will save you time, should you wait for your professor to learn about it and teach you or learn about it from John himself? I'm not knocking academia (there's a lot of theoretical work going on in CS that's invaluable to the industry), but your professor is professional educator, not a professional programmer, so her needs and your needs (to have the right tools to build things competitively) are not perfectly aligned. In many fields the difference is probably inconsequential, but in something as rapidly changing as software I think it makes all the difference.

I've seen the effects of this lag in a different way living in Thailand. Since most of the developers here do not learn English well enough to work/research in the language, they're ability to learn new technologies is slowed waiting for the handful of bilingual developers that exist to learn them and then blog about them in Thai. The effect is that the technology base here is horribly outdated. New products are built aggressively, but they're almost all built on yesterday's tech. (The formal education system here is notoriously bad, but that's a different story.)

Re: 71% of students learn more about IT at home than school

#18

Software as we all know it today is inseparable from the internet. Like a lot of learning or information exchange on the interent, it's largely a peer-to-peer activity (software being the exemplary). Academia is hierarchical and relies on a specialist gathering, filtering and preparing information to disseminate to many. The former is more error-prone but also much faster. Or another way to look at it: If young John…

Another way to look at this:

If you come to the Thai market with knowledge of technologies that allow you to execute better and faster than the locals, you might have an advantage.

Re: 71% of students learn more about IT at home than school

#19
post #18

Software as we all know it today is inseparable from the internet. Like a lot of learning or information exchange on the interent, it's largely a peer-to-peer activity (software being the exemplary). Academia is hierarchical and relies on a specialist gathering, filtering and preparing information to disseminate to many. The former is more error-prone but also much faster. Or another way to look at it: If young John…

Another way to look at this: If you come to the Thai market with knowledge of technologies that allow you to execute better and faster than the locals, you might have an advantage.

Maybe, if you can find people willing to pay above local rates (which are abysmal). I don't ever work locally here but I have a friend that did web dev for years. He just barely made a living and eventually sold him company to pursue other things.

Re: 71% of students learn more about IT at home than school

#20

In other news, 29% of students are under-educated about IT. Seriously though, I think it's clear, at least in CS, that if you only do your coursework you'll be left far behind your peers and what employers expect from you. It has to be something you can be passionate about on your own. Getting A's in all your classes but never doing anything outside of them isn't good enough.

I have to disagree. Passionate programmers have side projects all the time, school or work. But you can successfully be a completely mediocre (dare I say average?) programmer by just doing your classwork. The typical Java and .Net business programming jobs out there require people who are absolutely lacking passion, otherwise they couldn't bear the day-to-day tasks. These jobs are not really desirable to good program…

Right, you can be "average", but "average" in CS lies between "Programmers" and "Senior Citizens". Average programmers aren't really programmers, they're just people who combine prewritten chunks of code without proper understanding of it.

"Programmers" have to be doing side projects, otherwise they re no better than an artist who only paints for money, or a musician who only plays for shows.

Post reply on HN