Live data from Hacker News

Civilizational Collapse, Part 4

johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com

11–20 of 205 posts

Re: Civilizational Collapse, Part 4

#11

On this topic - Oswald Spenglers observations on the topic of civilizational collapse are an interesting read. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Decline_of_the_West > Spengler's model of history postulates that any culture is a superorganism with a limited and predictable lifespan.

Now the superorganism is global. Who will be left to carry the torch?

Re: Civilizational Collapse, Part 4

#12
This feels reminiscent of the current issue of long-term data storage.

Flash drives are volatile and can lose your data any minute. Solid State drives are slightly less volatile, and a hard disk has magnetic fields that will last decades, but nothing will keep our gigabytes of data alive and intact for future archaeologists. If the Library of Alexandria can burn, then so can any form of digital storage.

On a side note, I enjoy reading John Baez's answers to common physics questions: http://www.math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/

Re: Civilizational Collapse, Part 4

#13
Maybe a silly question but how well connected was the world during Greek and Persian civilisations? Shouldn't their ideas and works survive on neighbours empires that we have a good track record?

I wonder if it's possible that some of the inventions attributed to China and India today could be tracked to works lost on one of these civilisations collapses.

Re: Civilizational Collapse, Part 4

#14

If our current civilization completely collapsed, I would think most of our technology would be gone forever. It is hard to imagine another civilization figuring out how to read a hard drive.

For that to happen our current civilization would have to be defined as every civilization on Earth.

there currently is one single civilization earth. All the cultural diffences between countries are far less than it would take to define different civilizations

Re: Civilizational Collapse, Part 4

#15

On this topic - Oswald Spenglers observations on the topic of civilizational collapse are an interesting read. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Decline_of_the_West > Spengler's model of history postulates that any culture is a superorganism with a limited and predictable lifespan.

Now the superorganism is global. Who will be left to carry the torch?

Civilizations don't die, they fragment and reform. The analogy of an organism is being stretched too far.

Re: Civilizational Collapse, Part 4

#16

If our current civilization completely collapsed, I would think most of our technology would be gone forever. It is hard to imagine another civilization figuring out how to read a hard drive.

A lot of modern resource extraction relies on easily available energy. The days of oil coming out of the ground or being able to dig for coal on the surface have long gone. My guess is you are right, once lost it won't be coming back.

Re: Civilizational Collapse, Part 4

#17
post #12

This feels reminiscent of the current issue of long-term data storage. Flash drives are volatile and can lose your data any minute. Solid State drives are slightly less volatile, and a hard disk has magnetic fields that will last decades, but nothing will keep our gigabytes of data alive and intact for future archaeologists. If the Library of Alexandria can burn, then so can any form of digital storage. On a side not…

>but nothing will keep our gigabytes of data alive and intact for future archaeologists

Not so, it seems:

https://www.archmission.org/5d-optical-memory

Re: Civilizational Collapse, Part 4

#18
post #12

This feels reminiscent of the current issue of long-term data storage. Flash drives are volatile and can lose your data any minute. Solid State drives are slightly less volatile, and a hard disk has magnetic fields that will last decades, but nothing will keep our gigabytes of data alive and intact for future archaeologists. If the Library of Alexandria can burn, then so can any form of digital storage. On a side not…

> If the Library of Alexandria can burn, then so can any form of digital storage.

There is no form of storage that cannot be destroyed. Even stone scriptures eventually erode and fade away. The best thing we can do is duplicate everything as much as we can and hope to reduce the loss over time.

Re: Civilizational Collapse, Part 4

#19
If something happens in the world able to cause a collapse of our civilization - the preservation of knowledge will be the least of our problems.

I see little point in trying to solve this issue.

But while we are here - we can make copies of useful knowledge and try to have them as in tact as possible...

Re: Civilizational Collapse, Part 4

#20

On this topic - Oswald Spenglers observations on the topic of civilizational collapse are an interesting read. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Decline_of_the_West > Spengler's model of history postulates that any culture is a superorganism with a limited and predictable lifespan.

> Spengler's model of history postulates that any culture is a superorganism with a limited and predictable lifespan.

A superorganism, yes, with a limited lifespan, yes, if you stretch it until the extinction of humans, but a "predictable" lifespan, that's laughable at best: the more information is transformed into data, the longer a culture will last, and the less predictable its lifetime will be.

Post reply on HN