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New Electric Motor Could Boost Efficiency of EVs, Scooters, and Wind Turbines

spectrum.ieee.org

11–20 of 52 posts

Re: New Electric Motor Could Boost Efficiency of EVs, Scooters, and Wind Turbines

#11
A lot depends on information they have not yet shown us. We have seen some hypebole, but there are dozens of 'free energy' people on you-tube making all manner of expansive claims - again with no data. Their best bet is to partner with Tesla or another combustion based car maker. They speak of patents - that needs to be tested on a bench to confirm it. Tesla has many many patents that they share on a mutual basis - which means I share mine if you share yours. So if some car make wants to sign and exclusive with Linear Labs they may get cut off from the Tesla patents?? If someone is too greedy they will find no buyers as the old ways work fine. Look at how the Wright Brothers patent greed eventually killed them off as they were invented around. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_brothers_patent_war

So more data, more truth, more future

Re: New Electric Motor Could Boost Efficiency of EVs, Scooters, and Wind Turbines

#12
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 10% is nothing to sneeze at but it also does not mean it is a game changer. They give a quote on a practical application: > The resulting Segway enjoyed a 50-percent increase in range, and four times the torque, which boosted the vehicle’s top speed and allowed it to climb a steep 20-percent grade. If that scales up linearly to electric cars, that's quite a boost.

That's a pretty big if. A Segway is very much not a car. The relative weight of motor + batteries is a much higher proportion of the total mass of vehicle+occupant than it is in a vehicle. So it may be a boon to lightweight electric vehicles where that is true, but the same will not hold in proportion if the vehicle were much more massive and the weight of the batteries were much more massive. And Segways are speed l…

50% range increase would be a huge boon to a vehicle like a Boosted Board. My V2 throws off a lot of heat and gets nowhere near the advertised 11km range.

Re: New Electric Motor Could Boost Efficiency of EVs, Scooters, and Wind Turbines

#13
post #4

10% is nothing to sneeze at but it also does not mean it is a game changer. I like the way the coil ends are described, they are 'dead' weight in a normal motor because they don't contribute to the flux but they do contribute to the resistive losses in the motor. But that 10% of the length of the winding that sits outside of the coil chambers is not responsible for 10% of the electric consumption of the motor, which…

> 10% is nothing to sneeze at but it also does not mean it is a game changer. They give a quote on a practical application: > The resulting Segway enjoyed a 50-percent increase in range, and four times the torque, which boosted the vehicle’s top speed and allowed it to climb a steep 20-percent grade. If that scales up linearly to electric cars, that's quite a boost.

The motors in a Model S make up about 5% of the car by weight.

Re: New Electric Motor Could Boost Efficiency of EVs, Scooters, and Wind Turbines

#14
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a pretty big if. A Segway is very much not a car. The relative weight of motor + batteries is a much higher proportion of the total mass of vehicle+occupant than it is in a vehicle. So it may be a boon to lightweight electric vehicles where that is true, but the same will not hold in proportion if the vehicle were much more massive and the weight of the batteries were much more massive. And Segways are speed l…

50% range increase would be a huge boon to a vehicle like a Boosted Board. My V2 throws off a lot of heat and gets nowhere near the advertised 11km range.

> My V2 throws off a lot of heat and gets nowhere near the advertised 11km range.

Heat losses come in many forms:

- resistive losses in wiring

- resistive losses in the batteries themselves

(their Ri is nowhere near zero)

- switching losses in the powertrain

- slip losses between the field and the rotor

If a piece of gear does not get its 'advertised performance' that can mean a defective product, deceptive advertising or plainly bad design, or a combination of all of these.

Having a very expensive motor isn't suddenly going to solve any of that, you'll get an advertised range of 15 km while being able to do only 10 and you'll still feel cheated.

Re: New Electric Motor Could Boost Efficiency of EVs, Scooters, and Wind Turbines

#15
post #4

10% is nothing to sneeze at but it also does not mean it is a game changer. I like the way the coil ends are described, they are 'dead' weight in a normal motor because they don't contribute to the flux but they do contribute to the resistive losses in the motor. But that 10% of the length of the winding that sits outside of the coil chambers is not responsible for 10% of the electric consumption of the motor, which…

> 10% is nothing to sneeze at but it also does not mean it is a game changer. They give a quote on a practical application: > The resulting Segway enjoyed a 50-percent increase in range, and four times the torque, which boosted the vehicle’s top speed and allowed it to climb a steep 20-percent grade. If that scales up linearly to electric cars, that's quite a boost.

That's a lie. Or, at least, there's another existing normal motor that can achieve at least nearly the same results. Existing motors are already 90+% efficient; it's not possible to make a 50% increase in range.

Re: New Electric Motor Could Boost Efficiency of EVs, Scooters, and Wind Turbines

#16
These guys have definitely spent some money on PR since closing their investment round in April. They have placed 4+ articles with many of the same talking points, pictures and video over the last 2 weeks:

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/linear-labs-electric-turb...

https://jalopnik.com/a-texas-startup-claims-to-have-made-the...

https://newatlas.com/linear-labs-hunstable-electric-motor/60...

https://insideevs.com/news/364852/linear-labs-hunstable-elec...

Funny to see the VC money being spent so tangibly and the timeline for creatives, relationships and placements.

Re: New Electric Motor Could Boost Efficiency of EVs, Scooters, and Wind Turbines

#17
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 10% is nothing to sneeze at but it also does not mean it is a game changer. They give a quote on a practical application: > The resulting Segway enjoyed a 50-percent increase in range, and four times the torque, which boosted the vehicle’s top speed and allowed it to climb a steep 20-percent grade. If that scales up linearly to electric cars, that's quite a boost.

That's a lie. Or, at least, there's another existing normal motor that can achieve at least nearly the same results. Existing motors are already 90+% efficient; it's not possible to make a 50% increase in range.

I agree that they are at least misrepresenting their achievement. However, for the sake of argument, electric motor efficiency goes down quite a lot as overall power potential and RPM both drop. So it's possible they've come up with a sizeable efficiency improvement in a worst-case scenario, i.e., improving efficiency of a small motor in low RPM, part throttle situations.

If that's the case, however, it doesn't really bode well for them, as their efficiency gains will not translate to the high-RPM, high-power motors used in cars. I'm not EE, but I do know that most engineering involves making trade-offs. So I wouldn't be surprised to learn that techniques to improve low-power, low-RPM efficiency probably sacrifices high-power, high-RPM efficiency.

Re: New Electric Motor Could Boost Efficiency of EVs, Scooters, and Wind Turbines

#18
This whole thing sounds like a scam. Even worse, it's in an IEEE article. I'm really glad I ended my subscription to them so many years ago if they've fallen to these depths. Just look at this one line from their article:

>Torque is the amount of work that a motor or engine produces, typically measured on a per-revolution basis.

No, that's energy, not torque. Torque is rotational force. Torque times rotation is power, which is the rate of work. Work = energy. This is Engineering 101 here; it's inexcusable for the IEEE of all organizations to screw this up. I expect this kind of lousy journalism from a mainstream, layman news outlet like NBC or something, not something aimed at engineers.

>A typical motor’s copper content could be reduced by 30 percent, while generating equivalent torque, they say. So for a given torque level, the HET consumes significantly less energy than competing designs.

Very little of the electrical energy input to a motor is consumed by resistive losses in the windings; almost all of it is consumed by conversion to mechanical energy. Reducing winding resistance is nice, but it's not going to produce some enormous energy savings. Reducing the weight is helpful too, but again, those extra windings are only a fraction of the motor's weight, and unless the motor is being used in an aircraft, motor weight isn't really that big a deal in a vehicle, battery weight is.

>The company’s permanent-magnet tech requires no rare-earth metals.

This sounds like a total crock. Always be suspicious of new inventions when a single invention claims revolutionary advances in more than one field. Magnet technology is separate from motor technology, just like CPU technology is separate from mobile phone technology: it's a very necessary component, but still a component, one which is usually sourced from an outside vendor. Motor manufacturers do not make their own permanent magnets; there's companies that specialize in that. And making magnets with the highest densities of magnetic flux without rare-earth elements would be a pretty big game-changer, so why are they talking about motor windings instead of this?

>The system incorporates a purely electronic transmission

A what? Not possible: a transmission is a mechanical item that converts rotary motion into rotary motion at a different speed and torque level (e.g., high-speed, low-torque into low-speed, high-torque). This is just a meaningless sound bite. Most EVs use transmissions (usually single-speed "gearboxes", not multi-speed "transmissions") because they'd have to make the motor physically larger to generate the torque necessary to drive a car directly, and the extra weight and size isn't worth it; it's easier to drive motors fast and use a gearbox to gear it down, even with the efficiency loss.

>Many electrified vehicles must also integrate a DC-to-DC converter

Again, the "Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers" apparently don't understand basic electronics any more. Most EVs use 3-phase brushless motors, or induction motors (Tesla). The motor controllers are driven by DC because that's what Li-ion batteries produce, and they output waveforms to directly drive the windings on the motor in accordance with the current demand for power. I don't see how they expect to get around some sort of controller here.

Sorry, this whole piece sounds like BS. The whole thing is likely some kind of scam to get investor money and then disappear.

Re: New Electric Motor Could Boost Efficiency of EVs, Scooters, and Wind Turbines

#19
post #10

For those wondering what a seemingly marginal difference would mean in real world examples, take a look at this video from a conference on electric aircraft design a year ago: High Torque, Low RPM Motors – Key Enablers of Quiet Flight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXd4M_pZl78

I watched about half that. Interesting bit that newer high bypass turbofans need gearing to match the turbine optimal shaft rpm to the fan's lower rpm and higher torque.

Brings up

   High torque gears -> weight
   High speed gears -> maintence hassle
If I get this talk right the hope is the difference in weight penalty for an advanced direct drive electric motor vs a gear train is nil. This guy is pushing a very high efficiency design that minimizes magnetic and resistive losses while being capable of high torque.

Neat.

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