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‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups

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Re: ‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups

#11
post #2

The author believes working as a software engineer in a startup is fine so long as you have the title "product engineer" rather than "software engineer", as if your job title actually matters.

Whoosh. He is saying you aren't seeking software engineering perfection - so forget trying to be an architecture astronaut and all that that entails. You are seeking product perfection - at any given time. And product perfection can only be judged by your customer satisfaction and business growth.

Re: ‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups

#12
post #2

The author believes working as a software engineer in a startup is fine so long as you have the title "product engineer" rather than "software engineer", as if your job title actually matters.

This is an uncharitable reading of the article. They aren’t just suggesting a different title - they’re suggesting doing a different job - shaping the product rather than just implementing it.

It's not a different job though. Everyone at a startup shapes the product. That's just what it's like working at a startup. That doesn't mean developers in startups aren't software engineers.

Re: ‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups

#13
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an uncharitable reading of the article. They aren’t just suggesting a different title - they’re suggesting doing a different job - shaping the product rather than just implementing it.

It's not a different job though. Everyone at a startup shapes the product. That's just what it's like working at a startup. That doesn't mean developers in startups aren't software engineers.

[deleted]

Re: ‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups

#15

I worked at a startup as the first Dev, it was a shock for me having to now consider things like: * What company laptops to buy? * Assess the merits of AWS and GCP and make a decision. * Divine an architecture that will get the product to the customers ASAP but will last at least a year with growth before needing a major rethink. * Present to customers, board members and potential investors about the tech. Eventually…

Y this is exactly what a startup CTO does... and more!

Re: ‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups

#16
post #11
post #2

The author believes working as a software engineer in a startup is fine so long as you have the title "product engineer" rather than "software engineer", as if your job title actually matters.

Whoosh. He is saying you aren't seeking software engineering perfection - so forget trying to be an architecture astronaut and all that that entails. You are seeking product perfection - at any given time. And product perfection can only be judged by your customer satisfaction and business growth.

As a Canadian with a lot of iron rings in the family, it's always so weird to see the phrase "software engineer". It just doesn't feel like it's been earned.

Re: ‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups

#17

But what if I want to join a startup so I can build out the stack of my dreams while accomplishing whatever business goals are set? I’m assuming if you _join_ a startup, rather then creating or co-founding one, there’s already a product person on board.

Maybe, maybe not. And if there is, they may or may not have enough bandwidth/power to really flesh out the full product vision. Part of the attraction to startups for some, myself included, is the agency that technical people can gain with respect to what they ultimately work on in an environment where anyone with an idea might get "airtime".

Re: ‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups

#18

Take two software startups. StartupA hires nothing but the stereotypical "software engineer". StartupB hires nothing but the stereotypical "product engineer". Which startup will be more likely to have a future?

The one with the founders who are best at selling.

Re: ‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups

#20

But what if I want to join a startup so I can build out the stack of my dreams while accomplishing whatever business goals are set? I’m assuming if you _join_ a startup, rather then creating or co-founding one, there’s already a product person on board.

You are assuming a whole lot with that one. Even when I have had product people it's very rare that they are connected with the development team and a lot of times they are stacked adversely in a team under 10 people. Bridging the product to dev and back again gap is more than a full time job. More often than that situation I've found that there just isn't a product person. I would like to know where your assumptions find startups that aren't a clusterfuck because I need to check that blog or newsgroup or whatever.
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