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A Walk in Hong Kong

idlewords.com

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Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#11

Post by [deleted] »

_petronius wrote: post #3
ETHisso2017 wrote: post #2

Hmm. I wonder how the protesters know who to trust in their Telegram groups and on LIHKG. There has to be a core of organizers, however anonymous they may appear to be. Is there a way to track metadata exhaust from telegram for building a social graph or xss lihkg? Could be a way to ID them.

This is some serious “too interested in seeing if you could, and not stopping to wonder if you should” content. What possible positives are there in exploring how to de-anonymize people whose life and freedom requires anonymity, and who are fighting the good fight?

[deleted]

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#12

Post by Aeolun »

This has probably given me more insight in the protests than any news article I’ve read so far.

Why is it so hard to find a decent source for what is happening?

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#13

Post by 0x8BADF00D »

roenxi wrote: post #7
_petronius wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is some serious “too interested in seeing if you could, and not stopping to wonder if you should” content. What possible positives are there in exploring how to de-anonymize people whose life and freedom requires anonymity, and who are fighting the good fight?

The Chinese bureaucracy has millennia of experience controlling large groups of people in the same way that the Chatholic Church has millennia of experience preaching. They've already thought of it, never you worry. The really interesting question for me is, when they inevitably succeed, how much damage they will do to themselves. Reform for the better is basically indistinguishable from chaos and collapse to the reg…

> The Chinese bureaucracy has millennia of experience controlling large groups of people in the same way that the Chatholic Church has millennia of experience preaching.

Yet they couldn’t control a band of wandering, illiterate horsemen. The human spirit can never be controlled.

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#14

Post by albertzeyer »

This is the first time I hear about the term "zeroth world". A quick Google search did bring up some results, but not much. Wikipedia does not seem to cover that. Of course it covers 1st/2nd/3rd world (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-world_model, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_World, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World). The terms "developed", "developing", and "underdeveloped" are somewhat analogue to that (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_country). There is also the term fourth world (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_World). Putting countries (or cities) into these categories is hard of course (and maybe does not make sense).

It seems that the term zeroth world naturally is used to say that such countries/cities are more developed than the first world. More specifically, more developed than USA. Countries/cities like Taipei, Singapore (in this article) or Norway (http://www.chaosnode.net/blog/2018/06/17/life-in-the-zeroth-...) are such examples (you probably can add some more to that list, e.g. Switzerland).

Other articles (https://www.ineteconomics.org/perspectives/blog/america-is-r...) argue that we maybe can just downgrade USA to a developing country (i.e. like 2nd world).

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#15

Post by abcdefghijklmn3 »

Fu Guohao was severely beaten by black shirt protesters at the airport for allegedly being a mainland spy and a police plant. Why did the protesters do that? Why did they take away his freedoms? Why do these current narratives gloss over that fact?

You can accuse me of whataboutism, and I can accuse you of indulging in propaganda.

I can't imagine getting away with shining a laser in a police officer's eyes, let alone slinging bricks or molotov cocktails. The HK police are arguably kind.

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#16

Post by Joakal »

Aeolun wrote: post #12

This has probably given me more insight in the protests than any news article I’ve read so far. Why is it so hard to find a decent source for what is happening?

What do you mean by decent source for what is happening?

There's plenty of sources, including video.

Do you mean live news? There's Reddit, Guardian and more.

Some links:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Hong_Kong_anti-extraditio...

https://www.reddit.com/live/133sixros7tu5

China Uncensored or Nathan Rich on Youtube if you want to see polarising opinions on Hong Kong (or China). But at least with either, you can check related videos.

Also, beware of Wumao.

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#18

Post by avip »

Aeolun wrote: post #12

This has probably given me more insight in the protests than any news article I’ve read so far. Why is it so hard to find a decent source for what is happening?

Because people like Idlewords are rare. And even once they exist, they don’t get the exposure they deserve.

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#19

Post by spyckie2 »

This piece is quite accurate - it really makes you feel like you're in Hong Kong during the protests.

References aside, as a US citizen in Hong Kong there are some things that I respect immensely and some things that really get on my nerves about HK.

I greatly respect the people and the cause. It reminds me of that one poem -

> Do not go gentle into that good night.

> Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

The people here have a heart to fight for their own identity and for their well-being. It's actually really amazing especially with the immense challenges facing them and the great risks they have as a people.

At the same time, when two parties disagree in Asian culture, it rarely turns towards resolution. Most of the time it turns towards silence (separating, parting ways, or just pretending it never happened), violence (intense arguments, passive aggressive pay back, hatred and villainfication of both sides leading to all out war), or just a lot of stiffness / unwillingness to compromise, understand the other side or reach a deal.

This reflection is not just about the protests, although the escalation is due to the culture being this way. It happens everywhere, the biggest pet peeve of mine is that it's a normal, accepted practice. For instance, if you don't like your boss, you don't say anything, you just hold it in and then you send in your resignation. I wish the culture would be more willing to engage in conflict resolution type conversation and learn how to do it. It takes a lot of practice on both sides to do it.

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#20

Post by OkGoDoIt »

albertzeyer wrote: post #14

This is the first time I hear about the term "zeroth world". A quick Google search did bring up some results, but not much. Wikipedia does not seem to cover that. Of course it covers 1st/2nd/3rd world ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-world_model , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_World , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World ). The terms "developed", "developin…

I think he uses the term creatively, it’s not a standard term I’ve seen elsewhere.

Having spent a decent amount of time in both mainland China and Hong Kong, and living in San Francisco and previously elsewhere in the USA, I can definitely relate. So many things about China feel much more modern than the USA. I get better cell phone service on top of remote mountains in China than I do at my home in downtown San Francisco. Public transit is light years better there as well. Certainly there are things that are worse in China, the main one being air quality, but often coming back to the USA after an extended trip in China or Hong Kong is quite disappointing as I reacclimate to our crappy infrastructure.

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