HK police fires rubber bullet at protesters and civilians at point blank range • Hacker News Board

Re: HK police fires rubber bullet at protesters and civilians at point blank range

#11

Post by EliRivers » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 7:20 AM UTC

ackbar03 wrote: post #9

beatgammit wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously defending the police here? This is way beyond the reaction you'd see in pretty much any western democratic country. Protests (again, in western democratic countries) can be peaceful, and typically are peaceful provided the police don't escalate things.

No I don't agree with the police beating the protestors here but neither do I agree with protestors throwing bricks at police and setting off petrol bombs or breaking off a policeman finger. You can't exactly expect them to be sitting ducks, it's a natural reaction so stop complaining and making a fuss, it's what your gonna get right or wrong. I for one would like to be able to spend my weeknights outside without the…

On the other hand, the HK police had their chance to be competent and impartial, and demonstrated themselves not to be a professional constabulary, but the tools of the state.

"Natural reaction" it may well be, but they're meant to be a professional police force; not a street gang.

Re: HK police fires rubber bullet at protesters and civilians at point blank range

#12

Post by k_sze » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 8:15 AM UTC

factfindingisfn wrote: post #3

The title is incorrect, they were not firing rubber bullets but rather they were using compressed gas pepperball markers.

Although I haven't been able to fact-check this myself, I honestly have no idea why you're being downvoted.

Compressed gas pepperball markers is also something used in riot control. I'm not very familiar with guns and all, but I wouldn't be surprised that

1) the two have different intended uses and different intended ranges;

2) one hurts more than the other (though I don't know which one).

factfindingisfn's statement is either factually correct or factually wrong. But I saw him downvoted with no explanation. As of this writing, the other comment in this thread doesn't seem to address the factual claim at all.

Re: HK police fires rubber bullet at protesters and civilians at point blank range

#13

Post by ninedays » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 8:19 AM UTC

isaaafc wrote: post #2

This is just one of the many incidents of police brutality that happened in the latest protest in Hong Kong. All the cases quoted below (and many more) happened just yesterday. Baton beating, framing protesters, firing tear gases in residential areas have been a "norm" to HK police and have happened every time there was a protest, so 2-3 times a week on average in almost every district in HK. They are not quoted. Num…

Same thing happens in France where police are filmed gazing and beating some people out (even old people)[1]

Someone already lost an eye few months ago.[2]

President guard is disguised as a policeman and beat some people on the streets. [3]

And on and on. The issue is that people are starting to lose trust in how the police and the gouvernment operate and are seeing that some actions don't seem fair to them.

[1] : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDom3fi67ew [2] : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMXeosboyjg [3] : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benalla_affair

Re: HK police fires rubber bullet at protesters and civilians at point blank range

#14

Post by locopati » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 9:05 AM UTC

k_sze wrote: post #10

isaaafc wrote: post #2

This is just one of the many incidents of police brutality that happened in the latest protest in Hong Kong. All the cases quoted below (and many more) happened just yesterday. Baton beating, framing protesters, firing tear gases in residential areas have been a "norm" to HK police and have happened every time there was a protest, so 2-3 times a week on average in almost every district in HK. They are not quoted. Num…

There's no mention of permanent blindness in your 2nd link. And what's wrong with firing tear gas and rubber bullets during "normal operating hours"? There was probably no legitimate non-protesting traveller in the Kwai Fong MTR station anymore. I don't think you can ever be 100% sure that there are no innocent by-standers in the crowd. So what is the police supposed to do? Never use force against protesters?

ummmm.... yes

Re: HK police fires rubber bullet at protesters and civilians at point blank range

#15

Post by wtdata » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 11:07 AM UTC

ninedays wrote: post #13

isaaafc wrote: post #2

This is just one of the many incidents of police brutality that happened in the latest protest in Hong Kong. All the cases quoted below (and many more) happened just yesterday. Baton beating, framing protesters, firing tear gases in residential areas have been a "norm" to HK police and have happened every time there was a protest, so 2-3 times a week on average in almost every district in HK. They are not quoted. Num…

Same thing happens in France where police are filmed gazing and beating some people out (even old people)[1] Someone already lost an eye few months ago.[2] President guard is disguised as a policeman and beat some people on the streets. [3] And on and on. The issue is that people are starting to lose trust in how the police and the gouvernment operate and are seeing that some actions don't seem fair to them. [1] : ht…

Are we seriously trying to compare what is happening in Honk Kong (and rest of China, that doesn't appear on TV), with the almost infinite patience that the french police shows, with the permanent protests in France about anything they feel like protesting violently against that particular week?

I still remember French setting fire to dozens of cars in several different protests, while the police was too afraid to intervene, or be accused of curtailing those "peaceful" citizens rights to express themselves as they see fit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChFHvi3ldec

https://www.dw.com/en/protesters-burn-cars-in-north-paris-su...

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/french-rioters-set-fire-to-cars...

Re: HK police fires rubber bullet at protesters and civilians at point blank range

#16

Post by liability » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 2:20 PM UTC

ackbar03 wrote: post #9

beatgammit wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously defending the police here? This is way beyond the reaction you'd see in pretty much any western democratic country. Protests (again, in western democratic countries) can be peaceful, and typically are peaceful provided the police don't escalate things.

No I don't agree with the police beating the protestors here but neither do I agree with protestors throwing bricks at police and setting off petrol bombs or breaking off a policeman finger. You can't exactly expect them to be sitting ducks, it's a natural reaction so stop complaining and making a fuss, it's what your gonna get right or wrong. I for one would like to be able to spend my weeknights outside without the…

Those totalitarian thugs (and their sycophants online) deserve far worse, and gods willing they'll get it.

Re: HK police fires rubber bullet at protesters and civilians at point blank range

#17

Post by kakwa_ » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 4:32 PM UTC

wtdata wrote: post #15

ninedays wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing happens in France where police are filmed gazing and beating some people out (even old people)[1] Someone already lost an eye few months ago.[2] President guard is disguised as a policeman and beat some people on the streets. [3] And on and on. The issue is that people are starting to lose trust in how the police and the gouvernment operate and are seeing that some actions don't seem fair to them. [1] : ht…

Are we seriously trying to compare what is happening in Honk Kong (and rest of China, that doesn't appear on TV), with the almost infinite patience that the french police shows, with the permanent protests in France about anything they feel like protesting violently against that particular week? I still remember French setting fire to dozens of cars in several different protests, while the police was too afraid to in…

> the almost infinite patience

Well, not that much, the protests in question could probably be far more peaceful if the CRS had a a lighter hand on the tear gas grenades, the flash ball guns, the sticks and everything.

Just to illustrate, the last year protests saw the reappearance of the "Voltigeurs" (cops on motorcycles with sticks and flash ball guns), these units were disbanded in the 80ies after the death of a student.

And the casualties list is pretty significant, 2 deaths, several hundreds injured (including a few lost eyes and hands).

Are these protests borderline riots? yes. But the Police response is also quite bad. I'm personally wondering if it's a conscientious political decision to have an heavy hand to breed violence in order to then 1) discourage other people from protesting 2) discredit a movement.

Granted, France is not yet at the level of China, we don't see opponents to Macron being jailed or disappearing (even if some developments are quite worrisome).

The State has a legitimacy for violence through its police and military forces that individual citizen don't have, and that's a good thing. But it also mean that the State must be extremely cautious about its use of violence to keep a moral high ground, specially in the context of a Democracy.

Lastly, History is generally not very kind on violent repression of protests and riots, even when at the time, the vast majority agreed with said repression.