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Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

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Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#11

Post by kemayo »

> By activating a dormant software lock on their newest iPhones, Apple is effectively announcing a drastic new policy: only Apple batteries can go in iPhones, and only they can install them.

I really dislike the phrasing attached to this story.

It's not a lock: a third party installed battery still works, the phone isn't refusing to start up until you go to an Apple Store and have an authentic Apple(tm) battery installed. Rather, it's a warning in the "battery health" section basically saying "we don't know if your battery is any good, you might need to get it replaced".

That said, I'd prefer a clearer phrasing of their error message. It looks like it's just triggering the generic "your battery may need service" warning, which is more of a scare tactic than I'd like. "You don't have a certified Apple battery" would be completely sufficient.

Given the existence of refurbishment scams, where substandard parts are put into old phones to make them look good briefly, I can understand where Apple is coming from on this point. Someone who buys a second-hand iPhone and finds the battery dies after a month isn't going to be very happy with iPhones.

Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#12

Post by pentae »

judge2020 wrote: post #3

So Apple's take is probably: A bunch of people get mad when their iPhones stop working, start running slow, etc; research data shows that when they need a battery replaced, they're more likely to go to the local third party (non-authorized) repair shop and get it replaced. We have no idea how skilled or unskilled these repair shops are, even if they use genuine Apple batteries. Our best bet for maintaining the reputa…

I have another, more simple theory: Money. They want the aftermarket service business to themselves for that reason first, and control over the quality of repairs secondary.

Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#13

Post by kemayo »

viraptor wrote: post #7
godelski wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with this sentiment. You mention Rossmann. Anyone that watches his channel knows that Apple purposefully makes things hard to repair. Things could be easier if they wanted them to be. But it's clear that Apple doesn't want devices repaired. See Rossmann talk about prices and how often the genius bar just suggests replacement. As for third party repair, it isn't Apples fault if a third party repairs a phone…

> As for third party repair, it isn't Apples fault if a third party repairs a phone incorrectly. It's not even their fault if authorised shops repairs it wrong. I got a failing key after a battery replacement, but it's after warranty, so they won't touch it. (how will you prove it's from the replacement?)

This is a little off topic, but in the name of trying to be helpful... :D

If you're talking about MacBooks, there's currently a pretty expansive keyboard replacement program going on for many models since 2015, which naturally includes ones which are now out of warranty.

So, they may have told you that before, but there's decent odds they'll have changed their tune now.

Details: https://support.apple.com/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-n...

Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#14

Post by temporaryvector »

sjwright wrote: post #10
viraptor wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see the reason why Apple would find limiting third parties useful, but: > Apple could, by all means, make the process easier, cheaper, and more idiot-proof, but that would require engineering efforts. This is a bit silly. Not only are they already spending lots of money on (purposefully) engineering in repair-hostile way, they also have very high markup on their hardware. Let's not feel bad for poor Apple in this c…

Nobody is feeling bad for Apple, but I do think it's ridiculous how we talk about what Apple does as if the majority of their competitors aren't doing exactly the same things. Looked inside a Microsoft Surface product recently? It's just like with the criticisms of working conditions at the Chinese/Foxconn iPhone factories. The same factories make Xboxes, Playstations and thousands of other devices that we all buy wi…

I agree that Apple is not the only culprit and their competitors should be equally derided, and in fact they often are. The Surface Laptop is the only laptop on ifixit with a repairability score of 0, after all.

But it's still pretty clear that Apple should get a lot of flak because they are frequently the first one to market with anti-repair features, they're pioneers in pushing design features that make repair harder, they sell products at a premium price but their first party support is often pretty bad and expensive and they have a lot of mind-share and they use that mind-share to push the "electronics are hard to repair" myth.

When it comes to bad repairability, Apple leads the way and the rest of the manufacturers follow after seeing what Apple can get away with. In general this is true for a lot of user-hostile design. On the flip-side, their position as leader does allow them to push some aspects of the industry forward, but they haven't been doing much of that lately, and when they do it's usually flawed in some way (their early push for USB-C comes to mind).

So I don't think its unfair for Apple to be the punching bag in this case. They put themselves in that position by grabbing so much mind-share and positioning themselves as leaders to be emulated by their competitors.

Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#16

Post by abalone »

> Now, I’m not sure that Apple has thus far triggered that kill switch. But they can do so at any time.

This is just scaremongering. Apple has not, in fact, triggered a "kill switch" or "locked" anyone out of using a 3rd party battery.

All it does is display a message that it's not a genuine Apple part. Deep in the battery settings. That's it.

Remember that old iPhones are frequently resold. You're going to want to know if it has OEM parts.

Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#17

Post by bubblethink »

abalone wrote: post #16

> Now, I’m not sure that Apple has thus far triggered that kill switch. But they can do so at any time. This is just scaremongering. Apple has not, in fact, triggered a "kill switch" or "locked" anyone out of using a 3rd party battery. All it does is display a message that it's not a genuine Apple part. Deep in the battery settings. That's it. Remember that old iPhones are frequently resold. You're going to want to k…

>You're going to want to know if it has OEM parts.

But the message is triggered even if you insert an Apple part. So you would want to know if the phone was blessed by an apple genius when you buy/sell ? It's surprising the lengths people go through to defend these asinine decisions. I don't even care about Apple, but the problem is that everyone will follow suit since the rest of the industry lacks any sort of vision/spine.

Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#18

Post by emsy »

algaeontoast wrote: post #15

Apple Care isn’t that expensive - I’ve rarely had an apple product break that hasn’t been free or under $100 to have fixed at the Apple store. Louis Rossmann is the best, but I’ve never really encountered a reason to care about Right to Repair...

This argument sounds like "I don't care about cancer research because I don't get sick". It should matter to you for many reasons that have nothing to do with whether you're affected or not. I don't want to see the hostility towards customers you see e.g. from tractor companies creep into my computing devices.

Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#19

Post by viraptor »

sjwright wrote: post #10
viraptor wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see the reason why Apple would find limiting third parties useful, but: > Apple could, by all means, make the process easier, cheaper, and more idiot-proof, but that would require engineering efforts. This is a bit silly. Not only are they already spending lots of money on (purposefully) engineering in repair-hostile way, they also have very high markup on their hardware. Let's not feel bad for poor Apple in this c…

Nobody is feeling bad for Apple, but I do think it's ridiculous how we talk about what Apple does as if the majority of their competitors aren't doing exactly the same things. Looked inside a Microsoft Surface product recently? It's just like with the criticisms of working conditions at the Chinese/Foxconn iPhone factories. The same factories make Xboxes, Playstations and thousands of other devices that we all buy wi…

They do price themselves higher and praise their design though. I'm all for exposing every device/company doing anti-repair stuff. But I'm also happy to start with those having most expensive devices. (if a $1200 professional laptop is not repairable, we have a problem)

Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#20

Post by viraptor »

kemayo wrote: post #13
viraptor wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As for third party repair, it isn't Apples fault if a third party repairs a phone incorrectly. It's not even their fault if authorised shops repairs it wrong. I got a failing key after a battery replacement, but it's after warranty, so they won't touch it. (how will you prove it's from the replacement?)

This is a little off topic, but in the name of trying to be helpful... :D If you're talking about MacBooks, there's currently a pretty expansive keyboard replacement program going on for many models since 2015, which naturally includes ones which are now out of warranty. So, they may have told you that before, but there's decent odds they'll have changed their tune now. Details: https://support.apple.com/keyboard-ser…

This was actually the last-good-keyboard model. :-(
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