Live data from Hacker News

Who Did the Math for General Relativity First, Einstein or Hilbert?

medium.com

11–20 of 66 posts

Re: Who Did the Math for General Relativity First, Einstein or Hilbert?

#11
The history misses several salient steps, like Lorentz and Poincare describing special relativity before 1905. I guess if you want to describe the controversy of general relativity you might not want to get distracted by the controversy over special relativity... but a pattern starts to emerge.

Then the history leaves out Nordstrom's contributions to the theory of gravity which are really important if you are going to state that "It is indisputable that Hilbert, like all of his other colleagues, acknowledged Einstein as the sole creator of relativity theory," it seems Hilbert was simply willing to drop it. Almost all practitioners I am aware of are at the very least aware of the contributions of Marcel Grossman even if nobody knows about Nordstrom and others. It is a huge overstatement to say that Einstein was the sole creator.

Reading about the history of Nordstrom's theory of gravity is far more illuminating on the actual active research attempting to find a relativistic theory of gravity. In fact a student of Lorentz, Fokker, working with Einstein was able to show that Nordstrom's theory was equivalent to an expression involving the ricci scalar and a trace of the stress energy tensor. Unlike Einstein's proposal around this time, it was diffeomorphism invariant. It is likely this development, by Fokker, lead Einstein to propose the R_ij = 8\pi T_ij formulation he was pushing before the controversial period with Hilbert.

Why might this be important? Well people have a tendency to be interested in history. The extended history involving Hilbert, Nordstrom, Grossman and more is important because it is more illuminating to the reality of how physical theories are actually developed. It turns out that maybe Einstein doesn't deserve the level of hero worship he gets, which certain types of people may find invigorating. Also, this episode shows that petty squabbles and politics exist in "modern" science.

Re: Who Did the Math for General Relativity First, Einstein or Hilbert?

#12
post #5

I find it uncanny how a "who got it first?" become a salient question today whereas as the time it was obvious both were excited at collaborating to make a theory that works well. Really makes you wonder what would research would like without the race for publication. What I was taught about this "rivalry" is that Einstein struggled with some parts of the theory and Hilbert proposed some complicated mathematical tool…

"Who got it first?" has always been a salient question.

See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leibniz%E2%80%93Newton_calcu...

Re: Who Did the Math for General Relativity First, Einstein or Hilbert?

#13
It’s clear that it’s not who did the math first that gets recognition, but the person who makes the scientific leap to connect math to new ideas of how the world works.

Lorentz and Poincaré both had mathematical formulations that were the same as Einstein’s special relativity, but Einstein was the one who gets credit for connecting them to what we now call special relativity.

Re: Who Did the Math for General Relativity First, Einstein or Hilbert?

#14

The history misses several salient steps, like Lorentz and Poincare describing special relativity before 1905. I guess if you want to describe the controversy of general relativity you might not want to get distracted by the controversy over special relativity... but a pattern starts to emerge. Then the history leaves out Nordstrom's contributions to the theory of gravity which are really important if you are going t…

IIRC from the book Chaos it was often referred to as Poincaré’s relativity theory in France.

Re: Who Did the Math for General Relativity First, Einstein or Hilbert?

#15

The history misses several salient steps, like Lorentz and Poincare describing special relativity before 1905. I guess if you want to describe the controversy of general relativity you might not want to get distracted by the controversy over special relativity... but a pattern starts to emerge. Then the history leaves out Nordstrom's contributions to the theory of gravity which are really important if you are going t…

[deleted]

Re: Who Did the Math for General Relativity First, Einstein or Hilbert?

#16
No mention of Hermann Minkowski[1]? As any educated mathematician knows, it was Gauss's student Riemann who solved the maths for n-dimensional manifolds, but it was Minkowski who developed modern spacetime.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Minkowski

Re: Who Did the Math for General Relativity First, Einstein or Hilbert?

#17

The history misses several salient steps, like Lorentz and Poincare describing special relativity before 1905. I guess if you want to describe the controversy of general relativity you might not want to get distracted by the controversy over special relativity... but a pattern starts to emerge. Then the history leaves out Nordstrom's contributions to the theory of gravity which are really important if you are going t…

I would love to read a deep dive into the history of (semi) modern science. In particular, one that would avoid pop-science analogies and that is unafraid of technical detail. Ideally one that is more focused on the intricacies and lineage of research than the particulars of researchers' personal lives.

I feel that academics often have significant insight into the history of their own fields and personalities therein, but that knowledge is rarely condensed/disseminated. Perhaps it's because matters can get quite political and subjective at that level.

Re: Who Did the Math for General Relativity First, Einstein or Hilbert?

#18

Does it matter? I think this misses the forest for the trees. Yeah, we can focus on the first to discover something, but awards and acknowledgments are often on first to publish, e.g. Make it public. After all, what does your grand descovery matter if you're the only one that knows about it and someone working in parallel finds it also and publishes first? And how does the scientific community verify the veracity of…

Does it matter?

If we want an accurate historical record of human achievement, yes.

That's separate to the end result. If you're focused on the theory and nothing else, then it doesn't really matter that Einstein wrote it either. We could remove the attribution entirely and the theory would still exist.

Hilbert might have know about it first, but what does it matter to the world writ large if he didnt publish? Einstein published, and thus the world knows and he is thus recognized for that.

That depends on why Hilbert didn't publish first. There are plenty of examples of people from minorities (women and PoC especially) discovering theorems but the scientific community ignoring them, and then a rich white man publishing the same theory to great acclaim. And then, even hundreds of years later, governments failing to fund the education of those minorities on the basis that they're genetically inferior because no one from those minorities has published anything of note.

Correctly attributing discoveries to the right people does make a difference in the wider context of society.

Re: Who Did the Math for General Relativity First, Einstein or Hilbert?

#19
post #16

No mention of Hermann Minkowski[1]? As any educated mathematician knows, it was Gauss's student Riemann who solved the maths for n-dimensional manifolds, but it was Minkowski who developed modern spacetime. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Minkowski

Minkowski blew my mind when I fist started to understand his work. Without a doubt the most useful pieces of math I learned after multiplication, and more intuitive even than that.

Re: Who Did the Math for General Relativity First, Einstein or Hilbert?

#20

The history misses several salient steps, like Lorentz and Poincare describing special relativity before 1905. I guess if you want to describe the controversy of general relativity you might not want to get distracted by the controversy over special relativity... but a pattern starts to emerge. Then the history leaves out Nordstrom's contributions to the theory of gravity which are really important if you are going t…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN