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Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

economist.com

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Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#11

Post by ArnoVW »

tmh79 wrote: post #3

Its amazing to me how cheap these changes are, and how much people love them after they are implemented. You go to a neighborhood meeting in the US and all you hear about is "loss of parking", "traffic", but when you remove the cars, everyone loves it.

There is pushback against car-impacting measures in Europe too, make no mistake.

The yellow jackets in France started as a protest against increase in tax on petrol. The previous president in France, Hollande, had to roll back a toll system. It took Paris 2 years of legal battles to close the roads along the Seine.

The major difference, compared witg the US, is that at least in an urban setting, in Europe you can imagine other alternatives.

The problem of the US is that outside of major cities, the entire country was designed and built on the premise of cheap, individual transportation. Everyone has his own little house with a little garden. No town centres. This lack of density means that public transport or bikes will never be able to be able to provide a serious alternative to the automobile, and so people will never given them up.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#12

Post by tosh »

tmh79 wrote: post #3

Its amazing to me how cheap these changes are, and how much people love them after they are implemented. You go to a neighborhood meeting in the US and all you hear about is "loss of parking", "traffic", but when you remove the cars, everyone loves it.

In Vienna in 2010 the city decided to transform a huge shopping street into a pedestrian area. There was a lot of fuss and heated discussions. Media reported on it for months. Some people feared the proposed change will lead to fewer customers and this in turn will lead to stores having to close. Public opinion was split but leaning towards the transformation. One segment of the shopping street was kept a street as compromise iirc.

Fast forward to 2019 and people love it. Also the stores are thriving. Now the part that was kept as street feels odd. Change is difficult.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariahilfer_Stra%C3%9Fe#Mariah...

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#13

Post by StudentStuff »

robert_foss wrote: post #7
marcus_holmes wrote: post #2

Living car-free in Berlin is ridiculously easy. I have my own bicycle, but still grab a Jump bike when I've walked somewhere and need to get home faster/easier. But this is the summer. I haven't done the winter here yet. That'll be the test.

You'll still be able to bike, a life-pro tip is to get some gloves for winter biking.

Biking in the snow can be quite fun, I enjoyed it last winter up here in Seattle. Good gloves, glasses and rain pants are useful to make it an enjoyable ride tho :P

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#14

Post by cm2187 »

DennisP wrote: post #4

Europe has had fantastic public transportation for a long time. I lived in Germany for three years in the 1980s, never had a car, and never felt I needed one. I traveled all over western Europe.

If you ever want to reverse that opinion, I suggest taking London's tube and/or Paris' Metro or RER at peak hour in the morning.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#15

Post by asteli »

jedberg wrote: post #10

It's a lot easier for Europe to go carless than the USA. They have better intra-city public transit for one. Also, most (all?) of their major cities laid out their grids before the invention of the car. In the USA, even older cities had all but their city centers designed around cars, and if you look at the top 10 cities, 7 of the 10 saw >90% of their road construction after the invention of the car. That being said,…

I think there's a growing realization that designing around car traffic is a losing proposition going forward. There's still a lot of political inertia to overcome, but we're starting to see bills liks SB50 (legislating to build housing around mass transit) be proposed and get traction.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#16

Post by amirmasoudabdol »

EU has the advantage that most of its small and old cities are very dense. I think it makes a lot of sense to start removing cars from their city centers. Cars are not particularly efficient or convenient anyway in narrow streets. That being said I really wonder why Amsterdam still allows cars to drive in its rings.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#17

Post by Scoundreller »

tosh wrote: post #12
tmh79 wrote: post #3

Its amazing to me how cheap these changes are, and how much people love them after they are implemented. You go to a neighborhood meeting in the US and all you hear about is "loss of parking", "traffic", but when you remove the cars, everyone loves it.

In Vienna in 2010 the city decided to transform a huge shopping street into a pedestrian area. There was a lot of fuss and heated discussions. Media reported on it for months. Some people feared the proposed change will lead to fewer customers and this in turn will lead to stores having to close. Public opinion was split but leaning towards the transformation. One segment of the shopping street was kept a street as c…

But are they the same stores?

It's probably fine for the landlords, but if you're leasing storespace and selling bulk/heavy goods, or something so specialized that people from afar drive to you, you're going to have trouble.

If you're running a restaurant or cafe, you're in a great situation.

It's a solvable issue, but it may be ignored.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#18

Post by sam_lowry_ »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #2

Living car-free in Berlin is ridiculously easy. I have my own bicycle, but still grab a Jump bike when I've walked somewhere and need to get home faster/easier. But this is the summer. I haven't done the winter here yet. That'll be the test.

I am lucky to live on the outskirts of Brussels and cycle for 17km to work once or twice a week. I would have done it every day, but I have to put kids in school and pick them up by 17:20.

Schools (and kids, by extension) are a major traffic issue and impediment to cycling.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#19

Post by Scoundreller »

amirmasoudabdol wrote: post #16

EU has the advantage that most of its small and old cities are very dense. I think it makes a lot of sense to start removing cars from their city centers. Cars are not particularly efficient or convenient anyway in narrow streets. That being said I really wonder why Amsterdam still allows cars to drive in its rings.

It's not just the narrowness of the streets: they're also short and not on a grid.

They're not designed for throughput, which really amplifies the benefits of a subway/metro vs. buses/trams.

Re: Europe is edging towards making post-car cities a reality

#20

Post by jashmatthews »

cm2187 wrote: post #14
DennisP wrote: post #4

Europe has had fantastic public transportation for a long time. I lived in Germany for three years in the 1980s, never had a car, and never felt I needed one. I traveled all over western Europe.

If you ever want to reverse that opinion, I suggest taking London's tube and/or Paris' Metro or RER at peak hour in the morning.

Germany is totally different. Even in Berlin, if a train is a bit packed and I just wait 2-3min for the next one. It’s nothing like packing onto London Underground with the deep tunnels and narrow gauge.
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