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Why I Turned Down an AWS Job Offer

lastweekinaws.com

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Re: Why I Turned Down an AWS Job Offer

#11

Post by twox2 »

dvt wrote: post #5

I've also turned down countless Amazon interview offers. In fact, I don't get how I'm still on their recruitment lists after asking several times to be removed. Amazon has arguably the worst culture out of any large tech company, and generally treats its workers like dirt. Given all my friends that worked for them, almost all have quit within 5 years. Given their abysmal warehouse management, it's no surprise they ha…

"quit within 5 years" is a poor indicator since most tech has much quick turnover.

Re: Why I Turned Down an AWS Job Offer

#12

Post by biggerfisch »

daenz wrote: post #4

How does refusing to sign a non-compete clause typically play out? I imagine it goes back and forth, and I'm trying to imagine a tactful way to do it that doesn't burn the relationship.

Personally, I've had a varied experience here. In one company, I explained my moral objection to this agreements and ended up getting in writing that it would not be enforced from the CEO/Owner of the company. That email and the fact that the scope was fairly tight (as opposed to this article) made me feel comfortable signing it.

In a second case, I was actually able to negotiate it away. I ended up not taking that job for other reasons, but before that decision was made, they had retracted the need for it.

Anecdotal, but maybe useful.

Re: Why I Turned Down an AWS Job Offer

#13

Post by rootusrootus »

sokoloff wrote: post #3

> Note that it’s scoped to Amazon—not just AWS. Well, it’s also scoped to products that the employee worked on or received Confidential Information about. Not just all of Amazon, full stop. IMO, that’s far more reasonable. Work only on AWS and get no Confidential Info about other aspects of Amazon and it’s scoped to just AWS for you.

"or supported", which can be construed very broadly.

Re: Why I Turned Down an AWS Job Offer

#14

Post by rectang »

> Come on, AWS. Do better than this.

The advantages are too significant. If a company of sufficient size isn't doing this, they're doing something else. Statistically, employees cannot win; there may be outliers where an employee prevails, but in the aggregate, the company will win — and that makes these draconian policies worthwhile.

Companies enjoy economies of scale when it comes to negotiating employment, because they hire over and over and over again. Meanwhile, individual employee candidates must reinvent the wheel with each negotiation.

If you ever end up in court or arbitration, the unfathomable resources that the company can bring to bear means you're not fighting a fair fight. Our court system is by and large for the purchase of victories by those who can afford enough lawyering to exploit every advantage.

The only way to fix this is through government statute to change the labor market. The way the market has been constructed, employees will forever be on the losing end.

Re: Why I Turned Down an AWS Job Offer

#15

Post by bitexploder »

daenz wrote: post #4

How does refusing to sign a non-compete clause typically play out? I imagine it goes back and forth, and I'm trying to imagine a tactful way to do it that doesn't burn the relationship.

If you are already employed this is a big thing to ask of an existing employee. Easy to say no, just be prepared to get fired. I don’t think there is a lot of nuance: “I don’t feel comfortable signing this agreement.” It unfairly limits your ability to earn a living IMO. Good luck getting in the door of a big company if the NDA is “policy”.

Re: Why I Turned Down an AWS Job Offer

#17

Post by xwdv »

daenz wrote: post #4

How does refusing to sign a non-compete clause typically play out? I imagine it goes back and forth, and I'm trying to imagine a tactful way to do it that doesn't burn the relationship.

The good news is you will be free to compete.

Re: Why I Turned Down an AWS Job Offer

#18

Post by bitexploder »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #7
daenz wrote: post #4

How does refusing to sign a non-compete clause typically play out? I imagine it goes back and forth, and I'm trying to imagine a tactful way to do it that doesn't burn the relationship.

It depends on the value you can deliver. If you are valuable enough, a negotiation takes place. If you're a cog, the job offer will be rescinded. Never give notice at your current gig until you've seen everything you'll be required to sign at your new gig.

I don’t think it burns the bridge. It is acceptable to have a moral and ethical objection to NDAs if you are just a staff IT worker.

Re: Why I Turned Down an AWS Job Offer

#19

Post by toomuchtodo »

bitexploder wrote: post #18
toomuchtodo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the value you can deliver. If you are valuable enough, a negotiation takes place. If you're a cog, the job offer will be rescinded. Never give notice at your current gig until you've seen everything you'll be required to sign at your new gig.

I don’t think it burns the bridge. It is acceptable to have a moral and ethical objection to NDAs if you are just a staff IT worker.

I agree entirely. I have (politely) rejected several AWS recruiter inquiries because of Amazon business practices.

Re: Why I Turned Down an AWS Job Offer

#20

Post by philsnow »

ses1984 wrote: post #10
dvt wrote: post #5

I've also turned down countless Amazon interview offers. In fact, I don't get how I'm still on their recruitment lists after asking several times to be removed. Amazon has arguably the worst culture out of any large tech company, and generally treats its workers like dirt. Given all my friends that worked for them, almost all have quit within 5 years. Given their abysmal warehouse management, it's no surprise they ha…

How many friends do you have who worked for a company more than 5 years? Work for Amazon for 2 years, learn a lot, get paid a lot, move on.

Except the vast majority of your equity award, which itself makes up the vast majority of your total compensation at Amazon as an engineer, vests in your third and fourth years.

Your first and second years you vest 5% and 15% (reportedly).

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