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Just 10% of fossil fuel subsidy cash 'could pay for green transition'

theguardian.com

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Re: Just 10% of fossil fuel subsidy cash 'could pay for green transition'

#11

Post by mywittyname »

shaftway wrote: post #6
smt88 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of high-paying jobs would immediately be eliminated. Millions of people driving gas cars would see prices go up a lot. Airline tickets, plastic products... the prices of everything would go up. There would also be big national security concerns. It's hard to hold, for example, Saudi Arabia accountable for misdeeds when your economy depends on them. For the record, I think the US should do this gradually. Some of…

Wouldn't taxes be able to come down by a commensurate amount? Isn't fossil fuel subsidies just a way to spread the cost from those who consume the fuel (directly or indirectly) to those who don't?

Probably not; the USA runs a huge deficit.

Re: Just 10% of fossil fuel subsidy cash 'could pay for green transition'

#12

Post by goatinaboat »

shaftway wrote: post #6
smt88 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of high-paying jobs would immediately be eliminated. Millions of people driving gas cars would see prices go up a lot. Airline tickets, plastic products... the prices of everything would go up. There would also be big national security concerns. It's hard to hold, for example, Saudi Arabia accountable for misdeeds when your economy depends on them. For the record, I think the US should do this gradually. Some of…

Wouldn't taxes be able to come down by a commensurate amount? Isn't fossil fuel subsidies just a way to spread the cost from those who consume the fuel (directly or indirectly) to those who don't?

Wouldn't taxes be able to come down by a commensurate amount?

No, because the “subsidy” is just that some people feel that taxes on fuel should be higher. Nowhere is the price of fuel less than the cost of extracting and refining it, which it would be if it were a true subsidy.

Re: Just 10% of fossil fuel subsidy cash 'could pay for green transition'

#13

Post by rhinoceraptor »

ragebol wrote: post #8
gm_fan_boi wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not forget all the senior citizens who rely on income from investments in fossil fuel companies, this includes most of the parents of the under 45 who like to say, "screw the oil companies"

Or sell those assets now before they depreciate: divest from fossil fuel and invest in in sustainable energy.

Sell them to who?

Re: Just 10% of fossil fuel subsidy cash 'could pay for green transition'

#15

Post by justin66 »

gm_fan_boi wrote: post #5
smt88 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of high-paying jobs would immediately be eliminated. Millions of people driving gas cars would see prices go up a lot. Airline tickets, plastic products... the prices of everything would go up. There would also be big national security concerns. It's hard to hold, for example, Saudi Arabia accountable for misdeeds when your economy depends on them. For the record, I think the US should do this gradually. Some of…

Let's not forget all the senior citizens who rely on income from investments in fossil fuel companies, this includes most of the parents of the under 45 who like to say, "screw the oil companies"

The companies that stand to gain are likely to be publicly traded as well.

Re: Just 10% of fossil fuel subsidy cash 'could pay for green transition'

#16

Post by gizmo686 »

goatinaboat wrote: post #12
shaftway wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't taxes be able to come down by a commensurate amount? Isn't fossil fuel subsidies just a way to spread the cost from those who consume the fuel (directly or indirectly) to those who don't?

Wouldn't taxes be able to come down by a commensurate amount? No, because the “subsidy” is just that some people feel that taxes on fuel should be higher. Nowhere is the price of fuel less than the cost of extracting and refining it, which it would be if it were a true subsidy.

No, there are explicit subsidies given to fossil fuels. https://www.treasury.gov/open/Documents/USA%20FFSR%20progres...

Re: Just 10% of fossil fuel subsidy cash 'could pay for green transition'

#17

Post by 8bitsrule »

"In India, petroleum subsidies have been cut by around 75 per cent since 2014."

The full IISD report the article mentions is here [0] (along with a key points summary) ...see 'PDF download' below the image at upper right. Very readable.

[0]https://www.iisd.org/library/fossil-fuel-clean-energy-subsid...

"The report shares examples of four countries—India, Indonesia, Zambia and Morocco—that have already been taking concrete action and leading the way by implementing fossil fuel to clean energy swaps."

Re: Just 10% of fossil fuel subsidy cash 'could pay for green transition'

#18

Post by reitzensteinm »

gizmo686 wrote: post #16
goatinaboat wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't taxes be able to come down by a commensurate amount? No, because the “subsidy” is just that some people feel that taxes on fuel should be higher. Nowhere is the price of fuel less than the cost of extracting and refining it, which it would be if it were a true subsidy.

No, there are explicit subsidies given to fossil fuels. https://www.treasury.gov/open/Documents/USA%20FFSR%20progres...

While true, those numbers are tiny. When people talk about fossil fuel subsidies, they're usually talking about the externalities not being accounted for, or the cost of wars/military.

Re: Just 10% of fossil fuel subsidy cash 'could pay for green transition'

#19

Post by A2017U1 »

smt88 wrote: post #3
beatgammit wrote: post #2

What would the impact be if we just eliminate fossil fuel subsidies?

Lots of high-paying jobs would immediately be eliminated. Millions of people driving gas cars would see prices go up a lot. Airline tickets, plastic products... the prices of everything would go up. There would also be big national security concerns. It's hard to hold, for example, Saudi Arabia accountable for misdeeds when your economy depends on them. For the record, I think the US should do this gradually. Some of…

> the prices of everything would go up

Sounds like what every Central Bank in the developed world is desperately trying to achieve.

Re: Just 10% of fossil fuel subsidy cash 'could pay for green transition'

#20

Post by Ambele »

smt88 wrote: post #3
beatgammit wrote: post #2

What would the impact be if we just eliminate fossil fuel subsidies?

Lots of high-paying jobs would immediately be eliminated. Millions of people driving gas cars would see prices go up a lot. Airline tickets, plastic products... the prices of everything would go up. There would also be big national security concerns. It's hard to hold, for example, Saudi Arabia accountable for misdeeds when your economy depends on them. For the record, I think the US should do this gradually. Some of…

Taxes could go down by the same amount as the subsidies for all of the tax-payers, corporations, and investors involved allowing for a positive overall return to the economy if you include all of the inefficiencies avoided by having our government involved in these subsidies.
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