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U.S. Forces Failed to Conquer Canada 200 Years Ago (2012)

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Re: U.S. Forces Failed to Conquer Canada 200 Years Ago (2012)

#11

Post by dentemple »

anoncake wrote: post #8
Causality1 wrote: post #2

The War of 1812 is a fascinating study in the ways we record and teach history. The US teaches it as a US victory because the US got everything it went into the war looking for and repulsed a British invasion. Canada teaches it as a British/Canadian victory because they too got everything they went into the war looking for and repulsed an American invasion.

> the US got everything it went into the war looking for > they too got everything they went into the war looking for Did they even try trading beforehand? Going to war when there isn't a conflict of interests in the first place is particularly stupid.

The U.S. wanted Britain to stop kidnapping American sailors for its own war against France.

I'd say there was a major conflict of interest there.

Re: U.S. Forces Failed to Conquer Canada 200 Years Ago (2012)

#12

Post by dentemple »

lacampbell wrote: post #6

If only the US had won, then all those canadian programmers in Vancouver and Toronto wouldn't have to migrate to get a decent paying job.

There's nothing stopping Canadian companies from paying the same wages as American companies.

Re: U.S. Forces Failed to Conquer Canada 200 Years Ago (2012)

#13

Post by dwheeler »

Causality1 wrote: post #2

The War of 1812 is a fascinating study in the ways we record and teach history. The US teaches it as a US victory because the US got everything it went into the war looking for and repulsed a British invasion. Canada teaches it as a British/Canadian victory because they too got everything they went into the war looking for and repulsed an American invasion.

I was taught (in the USA) that in the end nothing substantial changed (i.e., it was essentially a stalemate). I think that is more or less true.

Re: U.S. Forces Failed to Conquer Canada 200 Years Ago (2012)

#14

Post by ergothus »

Causality1 wrote: post #2

The War of 1812 is a fascinating study in the ways we record and teach history. The US teaches it as a US victory because the US got everything it went into the war looking for and repulsed a British invasion. Canada teaches it as a British/Canadian victory because they too got everything they went into the war looking for and repulsed an American invasion.

I was taught ( in the US - Pennsylvania) that the US lost just about everything - in fact, the only victory was the Battle of New Orleans (?) that was actually fought AFTER the war was over but before word had reached the Americas. Plus there's that whole burning of the capital.

That said, it wasn't taught as a loss that we should learn any lesson from. Much like the Revolutionary War, it was just "oh heck, those crazy Brits vs the indomitable American spirit again!" If we weren't good allies of the British today, I wonder what the teaching would be like...

Re: U.S. Forces Failed to Conquer Canada 200 Years Ago (2012)

#15

Post by eloff »

dentemple wrote: post #12
lacampbell wrote: post #6

If only the US had won, then all those canadian programmers in Vancouver and Toronto wouldn't have to migrate to get a decent paying job.

There's nothing stopping Canadian companies from paying the same wages as American companies.

There's one thing stopping them, not enough Canadian programmers are willing to vote with their feet. So the supply is too high in the labor market.

I do my part, whenever a recruiter contacts me on linked-in for a domestic position, I reply thanks but I don't work for Canadian companies.

Re: U.S. Forces Failed to Conquer Canada 200 Years Ago (2012)

#16

Post by realo »

French Canadian here...

My impression on the 1812 war is that if the French had won the 1759 Battle of Quebec ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Plains_of_Abraha... ) then they would likely have lost to the Americans in 1812 ... There would be no Canada today.

But of course, this is just speculation.

Re: U.S. Forces Failed to Conquer Canada 200 Years Ago (2012)

#17

Post by IllogicalLogic »

romwell wrote: post #3
Causality1 wrote: post #2

The War of 1812 is a fascinating study in the ways we record and teach history. The US teaches it as a US victory because the US got everything it went into the war looking for and repulsed a British invasion. Canada teaches it as a British/Canadian victory because they too got everything they went into the war looking for and repulsed an American invasion.

Whereas, like many wars, it should really be taught as a mutual loss: a useless conflict that neither side needed.

The US barely won the revolution.

Luckily during the war, a volcano (Laki, Iceland) threw Europe & much of the British empire (including India & Africa) into a multiyear drought, causing one of the coldest/longest winters in the USA.

About 3 months after the eruption formal negotiations to end the war began.

No eruption, possibly no USA but historical accounts I've seen rarely mention the role of mother nature.

Re: U.S. Forces Failed to Conquer Canada 200 Years Ago (2012)

#18

Post by maire »

opps90 wrote: post #7
Causality1 wrote: post #2

The War of 1812 is a fascinating study in the ways we record and teach history. The US teaches it as a US victory because the US got everything it went into the war looking for and repulsed a British invasion. Canada teaches it as a British/Canadian victory because they too got everything they went into the war looking for and repulsed an American invasion.

I'm American and it was taught as a stalemate. I think most history classes probably teach it that way, and that's the most accurate interpretation. Your average American likely remembers nothing about their history class so asking an average American if it was a US victory is meaningless. Also it's not accurate to say the British got everything they wanted from the war. The Americans got the British to stop the impr…

I am also American and I also learned it was a stalemate. The most significant battle of the war was was fought two weeks after the war ended!

American historians think that the British complied with the meager settlement of Ghent because of the battle of New Orleans.

We did get a nifty song out of it.

Re: U.S. Forces Failed to Conquer Canada 200 Years Ago (2012)

#19

Post by eloff »

Causality1 wrote: post #2

The War of 1812 is a fascinating study in the ways we record and teach history. The US teaches it as a US victory because the US got everything it went into the war looking for and repulsed a British invasion. Canada teaches it as a British/Canadian victory because they too got everything they went into the war looking for and repulsed an American invasion.

I can attest it's taught as a victory in Canada. Actually we're pretty proud of it, it was really the first time all of Canada, both French and English and native fought as one. The US was the aggressor, albiet not unprovoked, so we can also rightly be proud of defending our country successfully. Had it happened after the civil war with the much larger battle hardened union army - the outcome would have been very different (and pretty much anytime since.)

Re: U.S. Forces Failed to Conquer Canada 200 Years Ago (2012)

#20

Post by rhacker »

dentemple wrote: post #11
anoncake wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the US got everything it went into the war looking for > they too got everything they went into the war looking for Did they even try trading beforehand? Going to war when there isn't a conflict of interests in the first place is particularly stupid.

The U.S. wanted Britain to stop kidnapping American sailors for its own war against France. I'd say there was a major conflict of interest there.

Sounds just as convoluted as the Ukrainian crisis 6 years ago (and counting?)
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