Demetrification: Removing the numbers of likes and retweets from public view • Hacker News Board

Re: Demetrification: Removing the numbers of likes and retweets from public view

#11

Post by echelon » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 4:14 AM UTC

sigsergv wrote: post #8

keyle wrote: post #7

Related to this, I remember when HN was showing the amount of upvotes on comments (like it does on posts). I still miss it, because quickly scanning a very thick amount of content, I'd like to know where I should spend time. I do it with posts (and the list /best is great if you're short on time). The ordering still supposedly shows us the very recent followed by the 'solid comments', but there is 0 information about…

Funny thing: I still don't know what [-] means, there are no tooltips or any other hints so I prefer not to click it.

You've been here since 2012! :)

That's really interesting.

Re: Demetrification: Removing the numbers of likes and retweets from public view

#12

Post by dmourati » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 4:22 AM UTC

Title got the key name wrong, it's demetrication.

Re: Demetrification: Removing the numbers of likes and retweets from public view

#13

Post by musingsole » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 4:31 AM UTC

Metrics with hard numbers are always too precise to be useful. Even the well-meaning will micromanage based off the difference of a 5 or 6 on a scale of 50.

I find the key is metric obfuscation. Instead of "1023 likes", color code the post. A deep crimson for the most downvoted and a sky blue for the most upvoted on a site. The specific value is so useless anyway.

Re: Demetrification: Removing the numbers of likes and retweets from public view

#14

Post by egypturnash » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 4:32 AM UTC

Mastodon does this. It’s really nice.

So’s the non-engagement-optimized chronological timeline, of course.

Re: Demetrification: Removing the numbers of likes and retweets from public view

#15

Post by Deimorz » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 5:02 AM UTC

musingsole wrote: post #13

Metrics with hard numbers are always too precise to be useful. Even the well-meaning will micromanage based off the difference of a 5 or 6 on a scale of 50. I find the key is metric obfuscation. Instead of "1023 likes", color code the post. A deep crimson for the most downvoted and a sky blue for the most upvoted on a site. The specific value is so useless anyway.

Which significant sites use that method?

Re: Demetrification: Removing the numbers of likes and retweets from public view

#16

Post by dwd » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 5:13 AM UTC

Nice idea, but I think this misses the reality of what is happening. Instagram is removing likes because it incentivises an economic system that they are not only left out of, but is a net cost to them.

Top influencers make a lot of money based on those metrics, Instagram doesn't see a cent of that yet they support these "businesses". Does anyone consider what it costs to distribute a post to 10s of millions of people? As an analogy, consider a system where advertisers paid the actor and the film crew to produce an ad, which was then distributed for free by the television studio. Not going to happen as it's completely unsustainable. Instagram is increasing the monetisation of the platform, and allowing advertisers free direct access to the metrics means you can't sell it.

Once it's gone, expect Instagram to roll out a new system where influencers will need to pay for potential reach and Instagram will start making a lot of money.

Re: Demetrification: Removing the numbers of likes and retweets from public view

#17

Post by jimmaswell » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 6:08 AM UTC

dwd wrote: post #16

Nice idea, but I think this misses the reality of what is happening. Instagram is removing likes because it incentivises an economic system that they are not only left out of, but is a net cost to them. Top influencers make a lot of money based on those metrics, Instagram doesn't see a cent of that yet they support these "businesses". Does anyone consider what it costs to distribute a post to 10s of millions of peopl…

It's a cost to them that more people are coming to the platform and viewing ads? I don't get it.

Re: Demetrification: Removing the numbers of likes and retweets from public view

#18

Post by outime » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 6:43 AM UTC

Even though I left social networks long time ago I welcome this change. Even if I tried really hard not to get influenced I still ended up reading posts with a high number of [interaction] somehow differently.

IMHO HN comments or some subreddits are good examples following this principle (not exactly the same environment though) while maintaining some sort of ranking.

Re: Demetrification: Removing the numbers of likes and retweets from public view

#19

Post by doctorpangloss » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 6:48 AM UTC

jimmaswell wrote: post #17

dwd wrote: post #16

Nice idea, but I think this misses the reality of what is happening. Instagram is removing likes because it incentivises an economic system that they are not only left out of, but is a net cost to them. Top influencers make a lot of money based on those metrics, Instagram doesn't see a cent of that yet they support these "businesses". Does anyone consider what it costs to distribute a post to 10s of millions of peopl…

It's a cost to them that more people are coming to the platform and viewing ads? I don't get it.

> Instagram is removing likes because it incentivises an economic system

Crackpot theories aside, likes are just a stupid way to look at the world, the bigger scandal is how long it took all these supposedly smart people to figure that out.

Re: Demetrification: Removing the numbers of likes and retweets from public view

#20

Post by raxxorrax » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 7:20 AM UTC

dwd wrote: post #16

Nice idea, but I think this misses the reality of what is happening. Instagram is removing likes because it incentivises an economic system that they are not only left out of, but is a net cost to them. Top influencers make a lot of money based on those metrics, Instagram doesn't see a cent of that yet they support these "businesses". Does anyone consider what it costs to distribute a post to 10s of millions of peopl…

They will surely offer "promoted content" and claim it to be popular. Honestly, while I don't like point/karma systems very much, I think the development to even more artificially placed content will not be in favor of platforms in the long term.

Advertisers encroach on every platform and it really sucks. Youtube for example didn't really develop anything worthwhile for users. 5 years ago the platform was so much more interesting. It still is, but navigating content was made really difficult with "adjusted" search results.