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I was owed $5k. I tried to hold them accountable

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Re: I was owed $5k. I tried to hold them accountable

#11

Post by hnzix »

charlesdm wrote: post #10
jmathai wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh. I wasn’t going to bother getting a lawyer involved for a balance of a few thousand dollars. I did threaten legal action though it proved futile. Out of curiosity, why was it not a good course of action? Did the client have any leverage after being 6+ months past due on their payment?

I was more referring to the $30k example above. In your situation probably fine for a few thousand, but if someone owes you a significant amount of money then I don't think you should act in this way. You just sue them (if all else fails).

> then I don't think you should act in this way.

What is your rationale? Netflix suspends your account for non-payment, the same should apply to web infrastructure.

Re: I was owed $5k. I tried to hold them accountable

#12

Post by goblin89 »

CodeWriter23 wrote: post #5

This is how I’ve handled it in the past. I remind them about being late, if they pay immediately, I let it go. If they don’t, they get put on a retainer agreement for all future work. Only one time I had to go nuclear and send a dunning letter with the “If I don’t receive payment within 45 days, I will have no choice but to pursue legal remedies”. The check arrived on day 43.

Being in the ongoing process of figuring out a billing arrangement that works for my tiny consulting business, I’m curious about the retainer agreement you mentioned. Does this mean you start billing a late customer lowered rate normally used for longer term work? I thought in the same direction before, seems to make a lot of sense.

Re: I was owed $5k. I tried to hold them accountable

#13

Post by wjnc »

jmathai wrote: post #9
charlesdm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. What he did is generally not good advice / a good course of action. What you do is let them know you expect payment in X days, and if not start legal proceedings. And then you follow up on that.

Meh. I wasn’t going to bother getting a lawyer involved for a balance of a few thousand dollars. I did threaten legal action though it proved futile. Out of curiosity, why was it not a good course of action? Did the client have any leverage after being 6+ months past due on their payment?

Lol, with all respect, taking down a companies website even with credentials given to you (for another job) can be construed as hacking. Revenge hacking can get ugly pretty quickly (criminal offence). You have a contract for X, do X and don't get paid for X. The conflict over paid for X is in a whole different ballpark than illegally using credentials for Y (taking down their site, with obvious damages as a result).

Re: I was owed $5k. I tried to hold them accountable

#14

Post by [deleted] »

charlesdm wrote: post #8
EGreg wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was sooo tempted to do this with a client who owed me $30K But I was worried about getting sued by that client.

Yes. What he did is generally not good advice / a good course of action. What you do is let them know you expect payment in X days, and if not start legal proceedings. And then you follow up on that.

[deleted]

Re: I was owed $5k. I tried to hold them accountable

#15

Post by roman030 »

EGreg wrote: post #6
jmathai wrote: post #3

Disclaimer: I'm not sure what the legality of this was so I'm not recommending it - but it proved effective in my case. I was owed several thousand dollars by a client and they were several months late in making a payment. They strung me along for a while but at some point it was no longer worth my time. Realizing I wasn't interested in any future work from the client I simply took their site down and emailed the own…

I was sooo tempted to do this with a client who owed me $30K But I was worried about getting sued by that client.

https://github.com/kleampa/not-paid

Re: I was owed $5k. I tried to hold them accountable

#16

Post by ourlordcaffeine »

A friend was once owed about $2k, and did not receive payment on time. She phoned up the person processing payments, who told her that essentially the person running the shop had instructed them not to pay her.

She sent an email to the head of the company (small media company that works on documentaries), who told her that she would not get paid because there was a "grammatical error" in her work, and if she continued to ask for payment they would not hire her again (now I should mention the person she was working with was happy with the work, she gave them the opportunity to ask for alterations and they told her that the work was up to standard and she could bill them).

She fired an email back quoting the contract, and how the company told her in writing that they were happy with her work. Again she was told that she would not get paid and should stop asking or they wouldn't work with her again. She then got a lawyer to write to them and threaten legal action. They paid her that day, along with what a phone call from the boss calling her a "useless c*nt" along with a bunch of other insults directed towards the fact that she was female.

Re: I was owed $5k. I tried to hold them accountable

#17

Post by phonon »

GhostVII wrote: post #4

I think a better strategy would be to send an email as soon as the payment was late, saying a late fee would be assessed in x days if payment is not received (or just include the late fee in the contract, I suppose). Attaching an arbitrary late fee without any notice seems strange to me, but I don't do freelancing so I guess I don't really know. It just seems like any fees should be documented somewhere, and people s…

In NYC, under the "Freelance Isn't Free Act" (which she mentioned in her emails) paying later than 30 days gives an award of double damages (twice the amount owed).

https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/dca/downloads/pdf/about/Freelanc...

https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/dca/downloads/pdf/workers/FAQs-F...

https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/dca/downloads/pdf/workers/Court-...

Re: I was owed $5k. I tried to hold them accountable

#18

Post by Traster »

GhostVII wrote: post #4

I think a better strategy would be to send an email as soon as the payment was late, saying a late fee would be assessed in x days if payment is not received (or just include the late fee in the contract, I suppose). Attaching an arbitrary late fee without any notice seems strange to me, but I don't do freelancing so I guess I don't really know. It just seems like any fees should be documented somewhere, and people s…

I don't work in the area, so I know very little about it and this may seem naive - but I constantly hear adverts for things like Quickbooks - where they'll automatically send invoices and chase up. As I say, I know nothing about the area, but those products are around $20 a month which seems like pretty good value and would leave your clients under no illusion about what they to pay when and with what penalties.

Re: I was owed $5k. I tried to hold them accountable

#19

Post by not_a_cop75 »

ourlordcaffeine wrote: post #16

A friend was once owed about $2k, and did not receive payment on time. She phoned up the person processing payments, who told her that essentially the person running the shop had instructed them not to pay her. She sent an email to the head of the company (small media company that works on documentaries), who told her that she would not get paid because there was a "grammatical error" in her work, and if she continue…

It seems like a pretty regular phenomenon in business, that if they believe you can be walked all over, that you will, in fact, be walked all over.

Re: I was owed $5k. I tried to hold them accountable

#20

Post by brianwawok »

goblin89 wrote: post #12
CodeWriter23 wrote: post #5

This is how I’ve handled it in the past. I remind them about being late, if they pay immediately, I let it go. If they don’t, they get put on a retainer agreement for all future work. Only one time I had to go nuclear and send a dunning letter with the “If I don’t receive payment within 45 days, I will have no choice but to pursue legal remedies”. The check arrived on day 43.

Being in the ongoing process of figuring out a billing arrangement that works for my tiny consulting business, I’m curious about the retainer agreement you mentioned. Does this mean you start billing a late customer lowered rate normally used for longer term work? I thought in the same direction before, seems to make a lot of sense.

No retainer: I do X hours work, I bill you for Y

Retainer: Pay us Z up front. I do X hours work. Y is deducted out of retainer Z, which then must be replenished before more work. Basically a pay up front method.

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