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It has always struck me as a very weird practice for colleges to be adjudicating criminal matters like rape.
The university system fills the gap, sometimes poorly.
It has always struck me as a very weird practice for colleges to be adjudicating criminal matters like rape.
Part of the problem is the abdication of most police forces and DAs to prosecute rape, date rape in particular. The university system fills the gap, sometimes poorly.
When it comes down to it, in cases of date rape, awkward sexual encounters, spousal/lover abuse, and all the messy areas of humanity in between, there's no way to get every bad actor, sometimes there's not enough evidence, and that's a terrible place to have to be. Sometimes the courts and tribunals are going to get it wrong, and that's another terrible place to be. That doesn't mean that we don't do everything within our power to make places of learning, both inside and outside the classroom, as safe as possible. That doesn't mean we ignore our responsibility to each other to attempt to make right cases of provable injustice. That also means that we don't destroy lives without evidence. Difficult decisions are the cornerstone of adult lives.
7 of us were in my dorm room, watching a movie on my computer. 3 girls, 4 guys, including myself. My roommate and I had our beds bunked, him on the bottom, me up top. The accuser was laying next to my roommate on his bunk, I was laying on mine, everyone else was in chairs.
The accuser, like halfway through the movie abruptly gets up and leaves without saying a word. Not a "no", "stop" or anything. Just silence and left. The 6 of us remain were like wtf? Then finished the movie and watched another.
The next week, one of the other girls told us guys something to the effect of: "you won't believe the shit I'm hearing. (Accuser) is saying she was sexually assaulted by you guys the night we were watching movies. And I know that didnt happen, I was right there."
We knew we didn't do anything, but we're scared shitless. One of the guys was an international student and was worried about being deported if expelled while on his student visa.
We nipped it in the bud by the lot of us going immediately to the Dean of Students to address it. He hadn't even heard the accusation yet. He believed us that the accusation was bullshit (the accusation was that somone unhooked her bra without her consent). 6 people vs 1 helped a lot. This was in 2000 and Universities assuming guilt was already prevalent then. We were pretty terrified.
I dont know what the accuser's thoughts were. Maybe she was seeking attention. I just dont know and nearly 20 years later, don't care. But she traumatized 6 people with a false allegation spread by rumors.
All of that said, it's important to investigate ALL allegations of assault/abuse, but it's simultaneously important to not rush to judgement and assume guilt. Due process is prescribed in the US Constitution for a reason. (Admittedly this might not hold for all private schools, but it should still be a guiding principle.)
According to the policy, I'm going to interpret this in the most generous light, but: 1. At 15:12 MT, this had 11 votes and was on the front page 2. Almost immediately after, this was flagged 3. The comments that say "56 minutes ago" where already there 4. It is now 16:54 MT (1:52 ago) I think there is a bug in HN timestamps, and also (subjectively) the moderation.
Until universities can compel testimony and subpoena evidence from everyone, including non-students/employees, they can’t have fair proceedings.
Until they have that power, they should be severely restricted in what negative negative findings they can make.
An accuser/accused who had to beg people to testify in their support isn’t likely to get justice.
I was nearly involved in a sexual assault case in college. 7 of us were in my dorm room, watching a movie on my computer. 3 girls, 4 guys, including myself. My roommate and I had our beds bunked, him on the bottom, me up top. The accuser was laying next to my roommate on his bunk, I was laying on mine, everyone else was in chairs. The accuser, like halfway through the movie abruptly gets up and leaves without saying…
But I'm also thinking it's not big enough a deal to report it either. I mean come on, my ex punched me (hard) on the shoulder before, that's enough to put her in jail.
Maybe someday we can find the middle ground between railroading undergrads with no evidence and taking decades to stop predators like Jeffrey Epstein and Bill Cosby and probably countless others.
Here’s the thing - universities can’t compel people to testify. And there are no consequences for retaliating against witnesses. Until universities can compel testimony and subpoena evidence from everyone, including non-students/employees, they can’t have fair proceedings. Until they have that power, they should be severely restricted in what negative negative findings they can make. An accuser/accused who had to beg…
Here’s the thing - universities can’t compel people to testify. And there are no consequences for retaliating against witnesses. Until universities can compel testimony and subpoena evidence from everyone, including non-students/employees, they can’t have fair proceedings. Until they have that power, they should be severely restricted in what negative negative findings they can make. An accuser/accused who had to beg…