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Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

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Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#11

three main issues: 1) yes the Earth is huge but cities really don't have easy access to landfill, and many are in fact running out of it because transporting garbage is expensive. 2) podcasts aren't convincing sources for a debate. 3) the real debate is "how do we reduce waste", not "landfill vs recycling".

To reduce waste, you'd have to make things more repairable -> But the labor costs in developed economies discourages that

If you make things more repairable -> net consumption might go down -> this might lead to loss of jobs.

Does my analysis make any sense?

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#12
>Properly run landfill doesn’t hurt the environment in itself.

>[...] But a well run landfill site has [...] electricity generation from gases produced by decaying matter,

This sounds like a pipe dream. We don't even have reliable estimates on how much landfill outgas there is, much less a good system for burning it. It's believed to be largely methane, which would be valuable without further processing if it could be captured.

Incidentally, the word "methane" does not appear in the article at all, and no systems describing such a gas capture apparatus are mentioned. But just think about it: a landfill is enormous; they are some of the largest things humans ever build, and some of them are visible from low Earth orbit. How do you plan to capture all of the gas coming out of that? Be honest!

Meanwhile, incinerators (of various designs) work today, have almost all of the upsides of landfills with none of the downsides. The article dismisses incineration with a single reference (b), which is actually an article from Planet Money focusing on recycling. The actual source is probably a footnote within a footnote, because that's as much attention as Americans will pay to incineration, I guess.

I agree that we need to talk about recycling less, but the correct alternative is incineration, not landfills.

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#14
post #11

three main issues: 1) yes the Earth is huge but cities really don't have easy access to landfill, and many are in fact running out of it because transporting garbage is expensive. 2) podcasts aren't convincing sources for a debate. 3) the real debate is "how do we reduce waste", not "landfill vs recycling".

To reduce waste, you'd have to make things more repairable -> But the labor costs in developed economies discourages that If you make things more repairable -> net consumption might go down -> this might lead to loss of jobs. Does my analysis make any sense?

Not really. A => B doesn't imply that not-A => not-B.

Total number of jobs or time spent in the labour market is one thing, but ultimately what we care about is efficiently creating utility. If I need to spend 5h working to get enough money to replace something I could've fixed in 0.5h, that's not good for the economy as a whole.

Were it otherwise, every home would be built without a kitchen and people would go out to eat all the time. We'd need more jobs for people staffing the kitchens, but it wouldn't help people overall.

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#17

> Properly run landfill doesn’t hurt the environment in itself. ... and properly written software has no security vulnerabilities.

While i 100% agree with your point, the (i'm assuming) highly regulated process of creating and running a landfill site doesnt have the same "fail fast, fail often", "MVP", "rapid development" culture that software does.

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#18

> Plastics come from oil, which we are gradually running out of, though not quickly. I guess it depends on your definition of "quickly", or it would be good to see a citation on this one. Personally, I believe that if we encourage recycling more, that creates an opportunity for companies to innovate in that space and come up with better recycling methods. So in that respect, I'd prefer to over-recycle than under-recy…

Recycling consumes energy. The better strategy is by far designing products that last longer or can be reused.

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#19
Some stats from https://www.eea.europa.eu/themes/waste/municipal-waste/munic... which show that landfill is decreasing in popularity here in Europe:

1. The rate of municipal waste landfilling for the 32 EEA member countries fell from 49 % in 2004 to 34 % in 2014.

2. Overall, the rates of landfilling decreased in 27 out of 32 countries. Between 2004 and 2014, the largest decreases occurred in Estonia (57 percentage points), Finland (41 percentage points), Slovenia (41 percentage points) and the United Kingdom (41 percentage points).

Re: Landfill is underrated and recycling overrated

#20
post #2

NYC ships its garbage hundreds, and even thousands of miles in some cases: https://www.freshairfortheeastside.com/latestnews/2018/1/22/... There’s even a poop train to Alabama: https://beta.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/04/...

What if we all used dry / compost toilets ?
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